Locus Map vs Locus Classic ... what's next?

Started by Menion, April 10, 2019, 08:18:06

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lor74cas

What about changing all without changing too much?
Why don't you use locus coins for this?
For example, I can buy 1200 locus coins and put them in my account, the monthly subscription coins are deducted each month. In this way those who want to activate locus for a month can do it without spending too much, for example on the 100 per month, the old users will buy locus coins for a year and so on.
You can keep special offers for those who buy large packages and everyone would be happy.
I would eliminate the free version. Locus 4 could be free (free to try) for new users for a maximum of the first week and then paid through the locus coins.
You can also give 1200 coins to those who have bought locus in the last year so as not to penalize them.

Locus Map 4
Locus Map for Garmin
Locus Tasker
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poutnikl



Quote from: lor74cas on April 15, 2019, 11:18:11

I would eliminate the free version. Locus 4 could be free (free to try) for new users for a maximum of the first week and then paid through the locus coins.
You can also give 1200 coins to those who have bought locus in the last year so as not to penalize them.

I suppose many users would be disappointed by absence of the free version.

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Menion

@jerome
we were thinking about this. It is good old method in the world of desktop computers, but unfortunately, there is no simple method, how to do this on the Android platform. The only option is to always publish a completely new application on Google Play, which is a really really bad idea (may needs many changes in app, all addons stop work with every update, rating and reviews are lost on Google Play, all direct links on Google Play will be invalid and many many more problems).

@lor74cas
I see two disadvantages here.
- missing Free version (currently used by approx. 60% of active users!) and
- (mainly) need for current Locus Map Pro users, pay a subscription for next months. Which, as I wrote before, not what I want.

I'm absolutely convinced that is perfectly fair, to keep current Locus Map Pro working and updated for current paid users without the need for any additional payments.
Because of this, change of Locus Map Free to "freemium" application sounds for us still as the clearest and most flexible solution.
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
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lor74cas

Quote from: menion on April 15, 2019, 12:50:23
I see two disadvantages here.
- missing Free version (currently used by approx. 60% of active users!) and

This 60% does not contribute to paying salaries, it only generates popularity in the store. If even a fraction of these went to the paid version you would have some profits.
There would always be a free trial period and subsequent periods that can be purchased at low prices.

Quote from: menion on April 15, 2019, 12:50:23
- (mainly) need for current Locus Map Pro users, pay a subscription for next months. Which, as I wrote before, not what I want.

I'm absolutely convinced that is perfectly fair, to keep current Locus Map Pro working and updated for current paid users without the need for any additional payments.
Because of this, change of Locus Map Free to "freemium" application sounds for us still as the clearest and most flexible solution.

Any user of locus pro who paid 10 euros for his application after two years would still be willing to pay to support this software. If you give a year of free subscription or coins equivalent to those who have registered in the last year you will not disappoint them.
Locus Map 4
Locus Map for Garmin
Locus Tasker
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Menion

Removing the possibility to use a limited version of the application for Free is really not what I want. It's not just about some trial time for testing. There are more factors like using paid access only two summer months etc.

Giving some time of subscription for current Locus Map Pro users sound interesting. Many people wrote this already, but there is quite a technical problem we are simply unable to solve. Anyway it has time, so we will try to think about it, thanks.
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- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
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Saturo

Menion wrote that 60% of the users use the free version. With what motivation will these 60% of the current Locus users will continue to report bugs or suggest improvements when they will not longer benefit from these changes?
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Menion

1. as I know, users of Free version report and generally help with developing a lot less than Pro version users ... which is expected

2. exactly for these users, nothing changes! Locus Map Free will be Locus Map and will be the main active app with same (and growing) functionality. So maybe there is some missunderstanding about how we will change the current Free/Pro model?
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
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chrisjk

My everyday phone is an iPhone, but because I want to use Locus and a couple of other navigation apps that only work well on Android, I use an Android phone for navigation. It always surprises me how Android users complain about having to pay a little for really great apps.

Locus is a superb app and in my view well worth a lot more than you currently charge; especially if it provides you the means and encouragement to maintain, refine and develop new features.
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poutnikl

I guess many users are rather against paying transactions themselves than against paying itself.

Also, many people are against suspicious at subscription philosophy as seen at big SW players like Microsoft or Adobe, that tend to draw a lot of money per small amounts.

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Christian

I made a poll among my bike mates: three riders with Locus Free, two with Locus Pro. Locus was recommended by me some years ago. Zero out of five will pay for any subscription for Locus 4.
Arguments of the guys: "Locus is more than I need. Locus has errors not fixed since... years. Upcoming features are uncertain and not for mountain bikers...."
Just for information.
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Andrew Heard

gee it would be tough being a small developer these days; no one wants to pay for anything :(
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Menion

Thanks guys for the feedback.

It is possible that it will be one big fail as Christian wrote (based on "field test"). There is always a risk. My intuition works correctly since begin and I believe, it will work again.

Well, from long term sustainability, there is no other choice. Anyway, we have something useful to offer, we try to have fair friendly style regards to price, communication etc. Market with hike/bike apps is big. Which is good. It a) learn users to use mobile phones for this kind of activity and b) everyone may choose. Win:win for all.

Options like bigger paid updates are a big technical problem, mainly because such system is not natively supported by Google Play. So subscription, which usage is globally highly growing, is the best choice.

And it's correctly only partially Andrew. Big companies are able to pay services from other incomes in their product portfolio. Google Maps are free for users because they are paid by income from ads etc. So yes, it is hard for small teams, because they are unable to offer "all for free" system. Fortunately, some people understand it and are willing to pay one/two beers for something that has benefit for them.

It's funny, but I understand the problem we discuss here well. I'm paying subscription for Medium, Google Play Music and few other services, but it took me also some time, till I realized that this is a perfectly logical and expected solution of "where to get the useful content/feature" problem :).

So I believe, all was said. I'll gladly answer any specific questions, but general discussion if the subscription is or isn't an ideal solution, is not useful. We globally confirmed in the whole team this week that it is a way we will go this year.

One summary: Locus Map Pro will be renamed to Locus Classic. It WILL BE still developed and updated! Huge source code base will be still shared between both versions, so fixes and changes in existing features will be updated in Locus Classic as well! So worries that app stop work in the near future are useless. Dot.
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 Release download

Holger

#27
I don't know much about English. If you have any complaints about the text, please contact deepl.
Why does everything have to be free? Locus is the best geocaching app I've had so far and I like to pay for it. Also for every new version every 1 or 2 years. I also buy a new virus scanner or firewall every year - but not subscriptions to it.
Example:
Locus 3 costs 8 Euro and all updates are included.
Locus 4 costs 10Euro and all updates are included.
Locus 5 costs 12Euro and all updates are included.
etc.
This is your reaction to rising personnel costs and inflation etc.
Only the basic functions like in the Pro are included. Who wants extras (Brouter, Cloud, Backups, etc.) buys modules.
Somehow more pleasant than abos. See Microsoft Office 365. Also doesn't work well and Microsoft is offering purchase versions again (Office 2019).
I also don't like the Locoin idea.
Example. A card costs 160L. I have to buy 200L. If something costs 1,90 Euro, I want to pay only 1,90 Euro and not 2,38 Euro. There is always a rest of Locoins left, but I don't get anything for it anymore.
These overpayments will surely discourage the majority of users from using the Locusstore. Why not pay a real card price directly via Paypal?
That would be my ideas. As buyer and user. I do not want to have anything for free, but also not money for unused.
Certainly not easy to realize.

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Menion

There will be an option for 1 year subscription, so what is the big difference compared to paying for firewall every year?
The only logical difference is, that most of the apps (not all from my experience) work after the paid year expires.

"Problem" with LoCoins is another story. We are aware of this, but without the web version of Locus Store, it is not easily solvable. Not on the road plan for next months.
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 Release download
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lor74cas

Another thing that often emerges in users' comments is that Locus is packed with features that most of them don't use. But these functions have a cost to support, development, cloud servicies, customer service, etc.
Many would pay for the things they really use, many apps for this purpose use paid plugins, such as Tasker. Is it possible to make paid plugins with subscription?
It would also make Locus lighter by installing only the plugins that one wants around a solid rock core with generic functions.
For example:
Locus Base
Geocaching Plugin
WMS Plugin
Cluod Plugin
LT Plugin
...
Also the updates would concern the specific plugin instead of involving the whole app every time.
Locus Base could also be free or donate.

It could also be a way to identify the services currently present in Locus that are uneconomical and under-utilized
Locus Map 4
Locus Map for Garmin
Locus Tasker
  •