[APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )

[balloni55]

@zossebart

Would you please be so nice and add it to next Beta?

it´s also available in current Beta
to get it work install first
BRouter 1.4.8.b.apk from post #94

[lor74cas]

Sure, no worry .
Ah, this is probably not yet even in Beta, hmm . My feature where in navigation menu ( click on next-command arrow during navigation ) is button that adds NOGO point under map center and force recalculate, so when you see, there is no way during navigation, with few clicks you may recompute detour.

Sounds great! Would you please be so nice and add it to next Beta? I've had several situations in the woods where a path was heavily overgrown where this feature would have been extremely useful!

Yes dashboard ... I tought it will be my evening relax

strange way of relaxing

I agree with menion ;-)
I also thought of a nice relaxing "sofa task" immediately

This is, only a very small % of user's tracks will have more than one segment+profile combination.

I have frequently had to change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. Sometimes I have had to manually draw part of a track where paths are missing or don't join up. Sometimes I have changed the profile to choose different options.

I also use track planner this way and I'm very happy that Locus offers the possibility to do so. Maybe menion could save the used profile for each segment with the track in order to use it for (partial) recomputation later? But maybe this could get complicated if you delete or update profiles and want to recompute an old track you created earlier with the old profiles?

try to allow creating 1:1 same dashboard as is current statistics tab, ends on neverending list

does default/user dashboard have to be as perfect as current precisely designed/ well presented stats tab? If I had to choose between A) flexible user defined stats using current dashboard editor or B) existing fixed stats tab, I would vote for A.

+1, I would also vote for option A!

Umm in this forum there are advanced users and it's easy to imagine that we all vote A. But what does a normal user want? Something easy, ready to use out of the box. So Ok with customizable menu but at a fresh new install the new locus user must find the a user friendly stats menu with the most common data.

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[Menion]

*** BETA 3.25.5.2 ***
- except many bugs you reported over last 14 days, there is also little bit polished Route planner of course.

Summary of situation:
Route planner
- really wants to publish it in next bigger version ( +- 2/3 weeks )
- NOGO areas won't be yet published
- "recompute whole route" suggested by Andrew will be considered as easy alternative how to compute whole route at once with single defined parameter

Dashboard in track statistics
- understand you wants at least something, but in this case, till dashboard won't be perfect, I'll not switch it. For now, feel free to use it in Beta versions as secondary tab

[matmas]

*** BETA 3.25.5.2 ***
- except many bugs you reported over last 14 days, there is also little bit polished Route planner of course.

Summary of situation:
Route planner
- really wants to publish it in next bigger version ( +- 2/3 weeks )
- NOGO areas won't be yet published

the bug I found was resolved
new route planner in 2/3 weeks
no go areas not yet published: I tried few minutes with the new version and they  are a kind of magic working flawlessy but I understand if you want test then more

- "recompute whole route" suggested by Andrew will be considered as easy alternative how to compute whole route at once with single defined parameter

I'm asking really to reconsider this because  I tried to edit with route planner several tracks and all of them have been fully recalculated .  On long route this could be a mess. I often use two or more profiles during the same route.

I think recalculation  should be procided as an option and generally speaking the recalculation should happen "between two green dots" when you move a green or red dot in between   




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[Christian]

This is, only a very small % of user's tracks will have more than one segment+profile combination.

I have frequently had to change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. Sometimes I have had to manually draw part of a track where paths are missing or don't join up. Sometimes I have changed the profile to choose different options.


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+1

[Andrew Heard]

This is, only a very small % of user's tracks will have more than one segment+profile combination.

I have frequently had to change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. Sometimes I

@John_Percy I also sometimes change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. But my gut feeling is that the average user would not be aware of this feature. Operation should be most intuitive for the common use-case but flexibility available that Locus is legendary for. If the user chooses to perform a full/ manual recalculation, each segment would be recomputed with its associated profile. This implies (if it is not already done) each route segment profile metadata needs to be saved/ restored.

If I delete a NOGO point how do I force the route (segment) to be recomputed? The only workaround I can see is to modify a point. Deleting a NOGO should force a recompute just like deleting or modifying any other point.

@menion
1. the route planner gets better & better. I note the via/ navigation/ definition point icons are now a little larger, easier to tell apart. For me they are the optimum size. This sort-of new concept definition point is good but I think the actual name "definition" is long and cumbersome. I can't think of a better one, maybe others can. The purpose of Via and Navigation points are fairly intuitive but a better name may help describe a Definition point?

2. In this 1st video I think the Route Planner is undoing 2 steps instead of just the last one. I add a 1st point, then a second/ final point, all good. Now I move the 1st point to another location. Still good. Now though I tap undo, and would expect the 1st point just to move back, but observe that the 2nd is also deleted.
https://youtu.be/tEmP8YMVygw

3. In this 2nd video, which is just the same route in the Route Planner, it seems Locus has forgotten the BRouter profile. The profile, unchanged from the 1st video, is set to Libor's Tertiaries, but when I add the next definition point a straight line is drawn by mistake instead of following the road.
https://youtu.be/eLLmdtoEbFc

4. Previously when I use the Route Planner for an existing out-and-back or loop recorded track the route was recomputed and I ended up with all of the loop truncated - zero length track. I notice this has now been fixed, the route is preserved; thanks. However I observe an orange msgbox "Distance between points is too short". Is this helpful?

5. Tap on a "track point" - popup menu allows change to a blue Navigation point or a green Definition point. Why no option to change to a Via point? Tap on a Definition point and it can only be changed to a blue Via point. Maybe there is a good programming reason, but for consistency why not allow any point to be converted to any other point?

6. Could either the Navigation or Via point be a color other than blue? And why are there a few smaller red track point icons in the route? I guess these are Track points but do they serve any purpose because I can tap anywhere in the track to (sometimes) edit the closest track point. The red is very hard to see against a magenta route so maybe there is a better choice of color here too?

7. In this 3rd video, I modified a simple out-and-back recorded track to force partial loop. When I tap on the track I get this popup menu of irrelevant options; and no option to choose a track point, or convert to another type of point. When the track is green (in background of popup menu), the little black direction arrows are visible inside the track, but with the magenta route color the direction arrows are impossible to see.
https://youtu.be/uKPaoQIQPG4

[Andrew Heard]

Good idea. I think English speaking users would understand the meaning of a "Shaping" point more readily than a "Definition" point. Also less characters. Then the art of translation.

[T-mo]

the new route planner is awesome
one issue I had to fight with: popped-up marker-popups
Of course they appear when you
- touch and select a regular connection-/via-point
- long-press the map
I did my very best but I was still not able to close those popups to see the map without any overlays, so
- long-pessing map > new detailed window with basic infos, then back
- adding a new point and deleting it
..still workarounds

[Menion]

@Andrew Heard:
You always write so looong posts, best to number paragraphs hmm? ( edited ).
1. "Shaping point" sounds good, thanks @0709

2. issue fixed, thanks for video, it helped

3. unable to simulate, does it happen to you always? Is this profile working for you at all?

4. it was still not fixed, what happen to you is just unwanted problem. Anyway consider this as solved for now ( next version ). @matmas complained on this before ( and maybe someone else ) and I was still not sure what is a problem and fortunately it happen to me as well, so finally fixed in next version.

5. does it make sense to change trackpoint to via point? I expect that is track usually automatically computed along some road and if there is something interesting along, it is not directly on track. So why not long click on interesting place ( if there is not yet point ) and add this point into middle of track as via point?

6. I hope, I'll get an idea for a regular icons instead of these blue and green once. About red ... they belong to older system, but I believe, they are still very very useful. Simply grab them with finder and move them. It will automatically create shaping point that you may immediately place where you wants.

7. hmm you cannot get here popup for trackpoint because you tapped on place where are three tracks, so you firstly needs to choose the right one. If you choose track from list, it should offer trackpoint-popup, does it happen?

@T-mo: on main map screen, when popup is visible, back press button hide this popup. I was a while thinking about same here .. should it help? Hmm ...

[matmas]

4. it was still not fixed, what happen to you is just unwanted problem. Anyway consider this as solved for now ( next version ). @matmas complained on this before ( and maybe someone else ) and I was still not sure what is a problem and fortunately it happen to me as well, so finally fixed in next version.

I wasn't able to understand the difference between the via point and the shaping point.

After some tests it seems that when you use route planner on an existing track it remembers via points and forgets shaping points.

So if you shape a "U" track with only shaping points and you edit again with planner it straightens the track . If you use via point this does not happen.



Imagine  you have the red route:
- if it was made with shaping points only when edited it is recalculated to the blue
- if it was made with  via points (i.e.
the blue arrow on the top) the recalculation get same result as before only if the routing profile hasn't been changed. I mean  that the original track is never kept unchanged, sometimes it is recalculated with the same output as before.

Here you see the green one with only a portion that is as before because the first part (on the right) was drawn with shaping points.

I think this is quite confusing. Why do we need shaping point and via point with a different behaviour  ?




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[Andrew Heard]

@Andrew Heard:
You always write so looong posts, best to number paragraphs hmm? ( edited ).

My QA background. I can make them shorter - report less issues, report with less detail. But I hope the feedback is useful. Sorry for another looong post

3. unable to simulate, does it happen to you always? Is this profile working for you at all?

Profile is 100% reliable with external BRouter method, 99% reliable with beta Route Planner. Problems only after intensive QA testing of Route Planner. No problems today. Is it possible communication with BRouter may silently fail & Locus reverts to straight line track segment? I can't reproduce. A few weeks ago I wrote Locus getting slower & slower - does Locus create a new thread for each BRouter operation? If a thread never completes, will subsequent threads also fail/ block, and could this explain CPU load getting higher & higher?

5. does it make sense to change trackpoint to via point?

It prevents the router from moving the track to some other road if the whole track is recomputed. It appears there are all special (unnecessary) rules for which point can be converted to another type of point.

6. About red ... they belong to older system, but I believe, they are still very very useful

thanks, finally understood

7. hmm you cannot get here popup for trackpoint because you tapped on place where are three tracks,

now understood - to me these 3 "tracks" are just 3 overlapping track "segments" of the same current Router Planner track. The to/ from names <A> & <B> are meaningless to the user, and maybe the term "Track" could be "Part" or "Segment"? Examples:

7. ...If you choose track from list, it should offer trackpoint-popup, does it happen?

yes

8. delete a NOGO - should this be undoable?

>Why do we need shaping point and via point
@   matmas - for me a shaping point can be considered an unnamed via point. The UI for shaping points is faster.

[Menion]

@Andrew Heard
nono posts are fine and really useful. I just don't like complicated responding when I wants to include also "quote" on certain part of text ... like you did in your last post. How are you doing it? Manually by copy & paste of texts like "[/quote author=menion link=topic=5827.msg48978#msg48978 date=1506283562]" and edit etc? It is really long process for longer texts ...

3. it is possible that communication failed, but in this case there should be some orange toast with error message. Anyway if communication is interrupted, system should terminate it automatically after a while. Slowing of Locus was maybe side effect of one serious problem I found and solved a week ago, so let me know if it will be better in new Beta version(s).

5. make sense, I'll re-think it, thanks

7. good point, thanks

8. nogo currently works as quite independent system, I believe it does not belong directly into this undo/redo system. They keep added even if you just close unfinished planning etc, so they really should stay independent.

@matmas
main usage of via-points compare to shaping points:
- they are visible on track after save
- navigation > navigation system should read that you are passing these points
- navigation > navigation system when recalculate track for some reason, search for nearest via point. If no is found, target of recalculation is final point instead

About storing & restoring track in route planner ... try it please also with a new track created in latest Beta versions. They should already have stored full track configuration even with shaping points. It just needs to be created in latest Beta versions.

[Taras D]

The current system uses three kinds of points to define a "Route"

1) Shaping/Destination Points
2) Via Points
3) Navigation Points

Why isn't the most basic of these three points simply called a "Route Point"? Or "Routing Point"?

Would it not be clear that you define a Route using Route/Routing Points? (Instead of Shaping or Destination.)

[Taras D]

Problem = Locus does not create a route...but a track to be navigated along.
...
Locus do not generate you a  (technical) route (gpx = rte) but generates you a track (trk) so has trackpoints (trkpt). 

I understand the underlying technical aspect but is it relevant? After all, the function is called Route Planner.

Regardless of the function's output format, its purpose is to plan a route (i.e. the path of your planned trip). You create Route Points to indicate where you want the route to go.

[Andrew Heard]

@Andrew Heard
nono posts are fine and really useful. I just don't like complicated responding when I wants to include also "quote" on certain part of text ... like you did in your last post. How are you doing it? Manually by copy & paste of texts like "[/quote author=menion link=topic=5827.msg48978#msg48978 date=1506283562]" and edit etc? It is really long process for longer texts ...

@menion - yes - I manually (tediously) copy & multiple paste/ edit the quote; is probably only an issue when replying to multiple points/ issues at once. Happy if you can suggest a better alternative?

3. it is possible that communication failed, but in this case there should be some orange toast with error message. Anyway if communication is interrupted, system should terminate it automatically after a while. Slowing of Locus was maybe side effect of one serious problem I found and solved a week ago, so let me know if it will be better in new Beta version(s).

There was no orange toast error, and certainly yesterday with hour of intensive route planner testing for my reply I didn't have a single problem (slow CPU or straight line or other BRouter failure) so I think "one serious problem" was fixed! Well done.