Author Topic: Navigation with turn instructions for mountain-biking (and others), Summary  (Read 8531 times)

Offline Joachim Buhl

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Hallo All

I know that there are several threads about this or similar topics. Here are some of them.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.msg33547#msg33547
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3915.msg29285#msg29285
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4362.msg34093#msg34093
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4079.msg33367#msg33367

I want to give a short summary of the functionalities of Locus and ask some questions.

Scope:
I want to use Locus for navigation on small ways and paths through forests and mountains for mountain-biking. Therefor I want to have turn instructions on crossings combined with voice instructions.

Locus currently gives us four different methods to achieve this goal:
1. So called "Guiding" (Deutsch: Routenführung) based on a GPX file or similar data.
2. So called "Navigation"  (DE: Navigieren) based on a GPX file or similar data.
3. So called  "Navigation" (DE: Navigieren) based on a created route within Locus using feature "Add new route & measure" (deutsch: Route hinzufügen & messen)
4. So called "Navigation" (DE: Navigieren) based on a TCX file, created with GPSIES or RideWithGPS or from elsewhere.

to 1:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus
Settings:
Settings-> Guiding-> "Next point" notification On (DE: "Nächster Punkt" Benachrichtigung) -> Text to speech
Activation:
Click on GPX file on the map -> arrow -> Guide On (DE: Routenführung Ein)
Pros:
- You just need the right settings and a GPX or similar file
Cons:
- This functions "just" interprets the change of angle on the track and generates voice output
- Serpentines leads to right-left-right-left all the time
- If the path/way changes direction you get a command to go right or left
- No turn instructions with arrows on the display
- Locus just follows the GPX file independent from the path/way information from the map data
Questions/opinion:
Useless for mountain-biking because you get a lot of unnecessary turn instructions and when you really have to change the way from one to another, and it is not a real crossing with a certain angle, you get no turn instruction.

to 2:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
Click on GPX file on the map -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- A more "intelligent" algorithm than in point 1 creates turn instructions along the GPX file
- You just need a GPX or similar file.
- You can choose the number of orders (Low, Medium, High)
- You get turn instructions on the screen
Cons:
- This functions "just" interprets the change of angle on the path and generates voice output
- Serpentines leads to right-left-right-left all the time (but less than 1, depending on number of orders setting)
- If the path changes direction you get a command to go right or left (depending on number of orders setting)
- Locus just follows the GPX file independent from the path/way information from the map data
Questions/opinion:
Useless for mountain-biking because you get a lot of unnecessary turn instructions and when you really have to change the way from one to another and it is not a real crossing with a certain angle you get no turn instruction (depending on number of orders setting, in one case to much, in the other to less).

to 3:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus to create a route along the GPX file manually.
Load the GPX to the map. Start  main menu -> more -> "Add new route & measure".
If you activate the turn symbol at the bottom (Compute route), the planned route will follow the exact ways and paths according to the map data. In the "settings" under "navigation" you can choose the "Compute source". You can choose between MapQuest, Yours, OSRM, Brouter (additional setup needed), GraphHopper (Plugin needed). This are all routing services, which uses the real map data to plot the route. Brouter and Graphhopper can be used offline (without Internet connection), the others need internet access.
With this routing services you can now reroute your GPX file and create a real "route" with "real" turn instructions.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
After creating and saving the route, click on the route -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- Route is calculated following the map data.
- You get turn instructions on the screen
- No Serpentines right-left-right-left all the time.
Cons:
- You have to reroute the whole GPX file.
- Sometimes you will also have useless turn instructions or missing ones because the map data is also not perfect, especially with the small paths you will ride with the mounting-bike.
Questions/opinion:
Best for mountain-biking is MapQuest right now.
You can delete useless turn instructions but you cannot add some missing ones. So better than 1 and 2 but not perfect.

to 4:
Requirements:
TCX file with turn instructions imported to Locus.
There are several online planning tools which can create TCX route files with turn instructions.
I tried GPSIES and RideWithGPS.
GPSIES creates turn instructions similar to 1 and 2. Senseless, but you get turn instructions on the screen and you can deleted and add your own instructions. Problem with GPSIES: The manually created turn instructions can be seen on the route after import to Locus but they will not be used be Locus somehow.
RideWithGPS creates turn instructions with GraphHopper (with real map information) like 3 but you can delete and add turn instructions manually. The added ones are integrated in the Cuesheet of the TCX file and were used correctly by Locus.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
After importing the TCX file click on the route -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- Route is calculated following the map data.
- You get turn instructions on the screen
- No Serpentines right-left-right-left all the time.
- You can delete and add instructions manually, needed because GraphHopper and the map data are not perfect.
- Route planning on the big screen of your PC.
Cons:
- You have to reroute your route. I do not know how to underlay a GPX file in GPSIES or RWGPS right now.
- The maps you can use in the online tools are not perfect compared to the openandromap with MTB theme in Locus.
Questions/opinion:
Best for mountain-biking right now. It uses the real map data (RWGPS), you can delete useless turn instructions and you can add some missings ones.

Over all questions:
- Which other programs can create TCX Files? BaseCamp?
- Which routing program can use the openandromaps with mtb theme?
- When will Locus be able to add turn instructions manually?
- Its 2015! What is the problem about creating a route with turn instructions based on map data based on a GPX file automatically?  What are all the software developers doing all the day ;-)?
- Who made the same experience with TCX from GPSIES and manually added instructions? Why aren't they used by Locus?
- Why isn't it possible, that we can get slight right/left from TCX files? Is it a limitation of Garmin, TCX file or Locus?
- I do not get a voice instruction right before the turn. The last one is several meters (50-70) before. Can I change this somehow?

Please help me and write your experiences here. If I make a mistake, please inform me.
Also for other ideas and additional information.

Thanks

« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 12:20:33 by Joachim Buhl »
 

Offline jusc

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Thank you for your conclusion.
Because I don´t use navigation for hiking or biking I can´t say if you are doing something wrong.

To Point 3 "Best for mountain-biking is MapQuest right now. "
At first tests, I thought, oh yes, you are right, there are big differences between Mapquest and BRouter
But what I found, with a few tests is, that the BRouter App should be updated from time to time. And it´s important, that you should have latest lookup.dat and profiles in your BRouter directory. For me it seems, that these files are not updated in case you update simply the app p.e from Play Store.
You shoud copy the profiles and lookup.dat manually to verify.
Next point, download neccessary routing data files too if they are renewed.
Important. Make sure that you that you at least once use the BRouter app itself with a from/to points callculation in "server mode".  It seems that Locus does not notice, the newest calculation files without this and be sure to restart Locus after this if you openened Brouter inside Locus before.

And yes it should be possible to add some turn instructions later, fie neccessary.


Regards J.
 

Offline ohgood

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I use locus for hiking, Geo caching, mountain biking, enduro (motorcycling), car navigation, and of course all the general tacking features.

Generally , I don't use voice navigation prompts at all for anything but on road navigation, in a car.

For everything else I just follow that route/track and/or use waypoint guidance instead of voice prompts. It's so much easier to see a turn coming up on the trail and then glance at the map , for me, than to try and figure out which of the trail head is "two hundred feet" away from the voice commands.

Just an idea.
 

Offline Joachim Buhl

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Hello 0709

Sorry for my late response and thanks for your support.
What I really cannot understand is, that every puzzle part for a perfect bike navigation (planning) is out there and nobody puts it together.
1. Map: For a good bike tour planning you need a good map. The absolutely best map for real mountain-biking is openandromaps with MTB theme because there you get coloured tracks depending on difficulty. Together with hillshading its perfect. Which programs are there to plan a route with your windows PC......0, zero, nothing.
Verctorial, RouteConverter and Atlas can display the map but the routing capabilities are ********.
2. Routing Tool with turn instruction feature: GPSies generates instructions along GPX file like Locus, depending on angles of tracks without map data background. Thats ***** but better than nothing. Con.: If you add turn instructions manually they will not be recognized after TCX export because there is no real cuesheet at GPSies.
3. You need a tool where you can load different tracks at the same time and than routing the best of all these tracks with a new track. Which tool can do this? None.
4. Than there is RidewithGPS. Expensive, routing with turn instructions, deleting and adding turns manually, cuesheets. Horrible UI, bad maps.
5. There is BikeRouteToaster: Bad interface, bad maps but adding turn instructions is working well.

So my current setup for planning a route is any GPX file loaded in GPSies, adding turn instructions automatically, than export TCX to bikeroutetoaster, deleting and adding instructions manually, export with TCX to Locus.
HELLO, its 2015.

The solution ist so easy:
Running Locus with BlueStacks on Windows Laptop.
Perfect maps, more than one GPX file displayed on map at once, planning tool with Mapquest, automatic generation of turn instructions and the only fuc**** function that is missing, is manually adding turn instructions.
WHATS SO DIFFUCLT ON THAT MENION!
You have the nearly perfect tool and you don't use it. Horrible.

Bye

PS.: I cannot find the right information. Is there a tweak (de.tts, config.cfg...) to change the "time"/"position" of turn instructions before turn? I would like to have one 50m (or 10sec) before and one directly before the turn
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 21:03:10 by Joachim Buhl »
 

Offline Max

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I eventually gave up on trying to use all of these navigation features. Instead I attached an external battery to my phone so I can keep my screen turned on for about 5 hours, and simply use the guiding feature.   8)

However, I follow downloaded MTB-tracks that often intersect themselfs. So, I need to see the direction of the track. When I move the map manually on the touchscreen and point the red crosshair on the track, arrows indicate the track direction. Is it possible to display those arrows all of the time while beeing guided along the track?
 

Offline Christian

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This would be a poor solution for this small problem. Like all the workarounds from 0709 (imho. Sorry for that. But that's why i'm normally not involved in this thread)
If you are interested in a professional solution by Locus you can vote here:
http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds
 

Offline Christian

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Offline jusc

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Wintersleep? Maybe in Czechia is still winter  ;D ;D   And how is it in Belgium?
In Germany the meteorologists are talking about spring since yesterday. We should wake up the developer, I think  ;D

Regards J.
 

Offline Menion

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grrr WinterSleep! Fact that I do not create new functions every day do not mean we sleep here :). I'm still working more then full-time on a Locus ;).
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 final download
 

Offline jusc

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You are right, the developer seems to be still awake. Only thing missing is, he hears our begging.  ;)
Regards J.
 

Offline Christian

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Funny thread ;)
But... guiding by display or commands its not a matter of hardware. Its work for developers only.
Talking about weather? The trailrunning saison in Alps has started last week. Tommorrow the road bike season will start also :D
And yes...during the winter i changed the folder style often 8)
 

Offline Max

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@Max   External battery capacity ?  Phone battery capacity ?  And out of juice after 5 hours ?  Arrows ? An example Screenshot picture ?  Or do you mean those Navigation track arrows ?
See:  http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4178.msg32090#msg32090

5200 mAh / ~1400 mAh / yes, maybe 6...

About the arrows... Usually an imported gpx track looks like the shown in picture 1. When I place the crosshair onto the track, it looks like shown in picture 2 (red arrows indicating the direction of the track). I would like to see those red arrows all of the time, so I know which way to go.



« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 14:49:41 by Max »