Navigation on all tracks

[tommi]

Menion, regarding the TTS in navigation mode:
Output is OK if distance is >50m, I often here reasonable 80, 100, 200m.

But:
 The last notification before the actual turn says always 50m (I hear never 40, 30, 20, 10m) but the actual distance to the turn is almost always significantly less than 50m, sometimes it's only immediately before the turn. The reason for this is for sure not bad GPS reception.

[menion]

ah yes, this is correct.

Whole TTS system is based on TomTom voices. And in these voices is only 50, 80, 100, 200, ... distances. And I use same system also for TTS.

So problem is not incorrect distance above 50 m, but just incorrect spoke distance below 50 m? Then I'll fix it to next version, not a problem.

[Joachim Buhl]

Hello Menion

First of all I want to thank you for always be willing to understand the problems of us, your users.
Thats not normal for software companies in these times, thanks.
I will try to describe the problems as precise as I can.

Version: 2.16.0.9
1. Fresh new track created with Mapquest online by foot:

border of to segments.

2. In principle the display activation works fine, but...
The display activation is triggered in advance to a notification, which is coming up. Beginning with this event the system timeout counts for deactivation of display again. If there is the next notification within this timeout, the timeout is not resetted and just counts on. This means, that on the last notification within the timeout the voice says "in 50m right" and than the display gets dark, before you reach the crossing. Only the next notification after display off triggered the timeout again. So the display timeout should be triggered repeatedly at every notification for the full timeout time.
To set the timeout longer (e.g. 5 min) does not help because there will be a notification at 4:55sek and than the display is dark again ;-).

3. manual notifications: Great, I want to test it as soon as possible.

4. Yes, option to turn off snapping and enabling moving (compass) map would be perfect. Than it would be like "old" guiding but with map data related notifications (with Mapquest) - perfect.

5. notification delay: mhhh, so its depending on speed, not bad......Maybe the fast changes in speed during mountainbiking is critical to the calculation. You need always some time to get the GPS speed and when I accelerate afterwards it does not fit anymore,...I don't know.
What Tommi says is, that the 50m notification is not the notification for 50m, but it is the notification to turn instantly? Only the notification text is wrong?
mhhh, also a possibility.

Thanks

[tommi]

ah yes, this is correct.

Whole TTS system is based on TomTom voices. And in these voices is only 50, 80, 100, 200, ... distances. And I use same system also for TTS.

So problem is not incorrect distance above 50 m, but just incorrect spoke distance below 50 m? Then I'll fix it to next version, not a problem.

Yesss, that's it!!!

[menion]

@joachim:
1) I did some changes and I hope it will fix it

2) good point, fixes

3) me too

4) understand, I'll keep this in my mind

5) I'll try to optimize this to next version

@tommi:
hmm it will be worst, because texts have to be in text files. I'll try to improve it a little bit now anyway

EDIT: anyone plan any trip on weekend? I'll have to go somewhere out for a test because I improved a little distance notification http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3423.msg24024#msg24024 and testing at home is little bit .. not perfect

[tommi]

I just prepared a test track (with brouter).
Then I started the navigation test and it calculated the navigation.
But not until the end of the input track. Only for the first 200 points of the input track.
Is there such a limit in Locus?

[tommi]

I just prepared a test track (with brouter).
Then I started the navigation test and it calculated the navigation.
But not until the end of the input track. Only for the first 200 points of the input track.
Is there such a limit in Locus?

I think I can answer the question about the limit myself: no such limit because I converted already tracks with many more points.
Sent you the track Menion.

[Joachim Buhl]

Hello Menion

I just came back from a testdrive with 2.16.0.11.
You changed something on the notifications, right.
Now I get a notification at 300m, the next one right before the intersection with just "right" and than the third notification "right" during cornering.
I think it should be at 200m, maybe 25m before and than just right before cornering like the second notification at the moment.
My question is. Are the distances for the notifications fixed or could you do them depending on navigation mode? pedestrian, cycle, car? Maybe it make sense to have different distances.

Strange enough. When I leave the forest with small paths and change to streets to come home, there appears a 50m notification and one just before cornering, how it should be when you would drive by car.
Everything was tested with a route generated by Mapquest segments.

BTW: You also removed the "you reached your destination" at the connection of the segments, nice. But the system still sets "you reached...." when there is a segment which is done without Mapquest and just with a straight line.
Sometimes this is needed because mapquest does not want to got the way it could go, even the intersection is clearly existing in mapdata (potlatch, intersection, no turning restrictions).

Thanks

[tommi]

Though I used a brouter based track with the waypoint  generator in Locus I basically can confirm Joachim's observations.
Especially when there is a combination of turns like a right turn in e.g. 80m followed by a left turn after further 25m Locus says "turn right after 80 meter and then turn left after 50 meter".

I never heard a distance shorter than 50m. Please improve!

[menion]

hmm weird ...

I had drive in streets in city (around 5 km) and all worked as expected.

About distances - notifications are based on speed => time to cross, not directly on distance. So notifications should appear 10, 30 and 300 seconds before cross. Or +- some time.

About distance below 50 m - I wrote "hmm it will be worst, because texts have to be in text files". Currently you should hear notifications without distance for order 0 - 30 m before, for 30 - 65 m you should hear "50 m", for 65 - 90 m "80 m", 95 - 150 you should hear "100 m", etc ...I'm aware that is should be better (more precise), on second side I still do not have working solution for updating TTS navigation files

EDIT: and thanks for a track over email - I had in Locus serious problem in compute of distance, so it's fixed now, thank you!

[Joachim Buhl]

Hi Menion

I do not understand your edit. Did you find the problem we describe? Did you solve it? What did you fix?

I can confirm that notifications smaller than 30m are without distance.
I can confirm that on real streets there is a notifiacation at 50m and short before, like it should be.

My problems are two notifications without distance right following each other during cornering (short before and during).
And only one long before at 300m. This all on small paths/ways out in the forest.

Bye

[menion]

joachim and this happen when you "walk" or even on a "bike"? Maybe there should be different times based on foot/bike/car. Because your notification 300 m before, should be first 300 seconds and last two without distance should be 30 a 10 seconds before

[Joachim Buhl]

Hi

I only tested it on the bike.
Different times could make sense. Configurable would be nice.

Thanks

[tommi]

Hi Menion
I do not understand your edit. Did you find the problem we describe? Did you solve it? What did you fix?

The fix is related to the waypoint generator, has nothing to do with "your" problems.

About distance below 50 m - I wrote "hmm it will be worst, because texts have to be in text files". Currently you should hear notifications without distance for order 0 - 30 m before, for 30 - 65 m you should hear "50 m", for 65 - 90 m "80 m", 95 - 150 you should hear "100 m", etc ...I'm aware that is should be better (more precise), on second side I still do not have working solution for updating TTS navigation files

What is the problem with these files?
They are contained in the apk and few experienced users have a modified copy in the tts folder.
Increment the version number for the TTS file, add the necessary entries in the apk contained file and let Locus complain about outdated TTS file in tts folder.
Or do I misunderstand the mechanism?

[Joachim Buhl]

Hi you navigation guys

Last week I tested the current state of navigation setup (route with navigation notifications created by MapQuest, no snap to track, moving map, heading line activated, automatic display on/off, off the track notification) in a totally foreign terrain with a 2h tour right before its getting dark.
And I must say, it works very good. Here my opinion in short:
Good:
- orientation without snap to track and with moving map is like it should be. Very good for mountainbiking
- automatic display on works great
- notification are good and useful, but not perfect
- Route created with mapquest is good, with some small issues
This all is definitly the right way to go on.

Issues:
- automatic display on sometimes switches off screen despite the next turn (timeout issue)
- the last two notifications are still to short to each other and the last one is too late over all.
- Off the track behavior is strange. It chooses the wrong point to come back to the track
- Route creation with redrawing a track is not very handy.

More things to do in order off priority:
- fixing the small issues above (display timeout issue, notification, off track behavior)
- possibility to add manual notifications or to delete some and to modify existing ones (to get not only "turn right" but "turn right after bridge...")
- automatic rerouting of a track to get notifications (Mapquest or Locus internal engine)

Thats for now.
Over all I'm very satisfied with the current devolopment and its very nice to see, that with every version we get new functionality and our proposals find the way into the program.
Thanks alot!

Bye