Voice NAVIGATION

[Menion]

I'm opening this topic for discuss about new feature for Pro users, "Navigation" from data downloaded by CloudMade service.

I need to tell you, not to expect something like fully working voice navigation. This is something I don't really want to do. Voice navigation is done in my second project SmartMaps and I have "full teeth" of some voice navigation things . Anyway main purpose of this feature is to allow some better guiding on preloaded tracks. There will be also possibility to define own tracks with some "directions" commands with some small extension to GPX file.

So try, test, use, and let me know if it's better then nothing

[svartbjorn]

Really great!
However, I have some ideas.
The problem now is that when turns are close after each other, the screen gets overloaded with turn directions, and you do not see what is the actual directions for the next turn.

May I suggest the following:
=========================
- remove all the turn directions from the screen and rather create a popup window at the bottom of the map area (just above the bottom menu line). This window shows the guiding text for the next turn. As soon as you have made the turn, the turn directions for the next are shown.

- with this pop-up window approach, you have given yourself the freedom to add more text info later without messing up the screen (e.g. time to turn, not only distance).

- by having "GPS Off", you could manually move the map along the track and the turn directions could pop up as you move.

Questions:
==========
 - the distance to next turn, would it be possible to continuously update that number as you are approaching the turn?

 - would it be possible to include the feature of recalculating the route if you miss a turn?

Voice guiding: I think this is not important. I have a Garmin Nuvi car navigator and I usually have voice turned off. I rather keep an eye on the turn directions on the screen.

[Menion]

thanks for feedback, anyway I'll probably release some "navigation beta version" tomorrow on market and then we should start talk about improvements. I did a some piece of work on improvments today, so I'm sure, you'll like it ...

[dibrial]

I agree with all things svartbjorn says. I noticed the needs for these functions during our Czech round trip and we are leaving the day after tomorrow. Would be great to test it. I have all the trips cloudmade routes ready on my device.

P.S. I also see some translations for dynamic zooming and midpoint 1/4 screen. Are these included in the beta also? I would really like this, because it will give me an extra zoom level during driving.

[dibrial]

Hey Menion,
Sorry, I didn't see there was already a beta with some functions available in the forum. I will have a look at it.
I was a bit distracted from the forum, because of those yellow/black insects flying around. :x .......irritating stingy beasts.... :twisted: AAAUUUCH!!!!
Do you always have that many wasps in CZ?

[Menion]

no wasps in czech now we have really rainy days so absolutely no flyes, wasps etc )

anyway, new version is actually heading to market, so test and report feedback ... I'm sure you'll be smiling when you see result of my work )

[svartbjorn]

Thank you for new release 1.9.6 (released today August 6). Two comments:

1) I tried the navigation with turn directions. You still have all the turn directions on the screen and when you zoom the map out, it is just overloaded with text and you neither can read the next turn direction nor see the streets. Sorry, I still think you would need to move the next turn directions into a separate window, which only shows the upcoming turn and not all the turns at the same time as it is today.  You mentioned something about some improvements in this new release, but I do not see any changes here from the previous release 1.5.4. Am I missing anything here?

2) Guiding: I don't know when the following command disappeared: With guiding on, two commands in the guiding popup window used to be "Nearest point" and "Next point". Now "Next point" is gone. This was a very important command as we talked about when you implemented that a long time ago (if you pass a waypoint at a distance larger than Guiding/"Set next point", then the guiding will never jump to the next point).

[Menion]

1) I still don't understand. What you mean by all directions? You mean red points on map that display text when you move your map center over them? But these are as regular points and when you're navigating, I expect you have some closer zoom so you don't see this values

2) when you test it, you'll see then next point is not needed here. I completely changed system how guiding is computed on background. I know it will need some new testing and improvements in code, but I'm ready to do it. Actual system is searching for nearest point on tracks with every move and from this point I'm computing path in distance you define for automatically switch. So when you set "Switch to next point every 100m", I find firstly nearest point on track, then I compute first point in way you go that is far then 100m and I set guiding on it.

I know it should sound complicated but it have few advantages. Main is that you do not need something like next point, because it will always choose nearest point on track so when you take some shorcut, it will automatically "snap" to track when you get close enough. And second main advantage for me, is that I need this system. When you compute track with CloudMade service, you'll get something like "navigation" now. And for this I need closest point!

EDIT: anyway when you find "Next point" still as important, it can be returned back. It's still possible

[svartbjorn]

1) Navigation:
=============
 My fault. I incorrectly enabled guiding to the first red point as I used to do for guiding on tracks. By selecting guiding to the navigation route (the small turn symbol) I got it right.
THIS IS AWESOME, Menion! You were right in what you said before the relase: I got a smile on my face when I saw what you have implemented! That turn popup window with real time distance is really great. And the guiding line that pops up when you move away from computed route is also really great.

I guess the text next to each red dot may be hard to move into a popup window since you are probably reusing the existing feature of adding points to track recording?
It would have two great benefits if it were possible to move the turn guiding text to the Turn popup window (or probably a new, not that tall popup window next to the Turn window such that it doesn't cover too much of the map area):
 - if you have computed a track over e.g. 100 km distance and zoom out to get an overview of the computed track, there is so much red guiding text covering most of the map area that you do not see the track any more. And this text is only of interest as you approach the next turn, so the right place for it is in a popup window showing one turn at a time.
- this guiding text would be much easier to read if shown in a popup window with a background color. Remember - this is something you need to be able to read with a quick look on the map while driving.

The guiding text today is like "Turn right on Sunset Road 1.3 km". That is 3 items of information: How to turn, name of road, distance. You already have 2 of these (1st and 3rd) covered in your Turn popup window, so you could limit the text to only display the name of the road.

Your moving car is great! You are showing a car no matter if I select navigation for car, bike or walking. Would it be possible to show a bike/walking person if those navigation modes are selected? This is of course not important at all - just a funny thing.

One more thing: the Turn popup window disappears when the last turn is done. However, it would be useful if you kept the window and changed the turn indicator to a Goal symbol with remaining distance.

2) Guiding:
==========
I see. I was not aware of that. Great.
However, I see two types of guiding:
- Guiding along a computed TRACK: Here you want to be guided along the TRACK and the waypoints themselves are not of particular interest.
   Here your new way of guiding and automatic jumping to next point is really great and better than it was before. No changes here.
- Guiding to a particular WAYPOINT on the track: here you really want to find that point and you want the guiding to that point even if you pass it.

May I suggest the following:
- When you tap a point on a computed track today, you get a popup window with the commands "i <track name>", "i <point>", "Guide On", etc.
     -- Here "Guide On" = today's guiding along a TRACK. No changes here.
     -- Tapping "i <point>" today pops up another window with 4 command/symbols: +, map, tools, navigation. Could you here add a 5th command/symbol - Guiding - just as you have today for a POI?
So when you have found that particular waypoint, you can select "Guide On" to the track again.

[Menion]

thanks for long reply. Many things your wrote are already in my mind. I think that most important is if "navigation" works correctly so if it snap to track and show valid values etc. When this will work fine, I'll look on it from "design" sign and do of course some improvements! Only one thing about text - this is text I receive directly from CloudMade, it's not mine. I'll have to separate it into parts, allow people who translate to translate it and then write it somewhere on screen ... this anyway later

[dibrial]

Navigation worked fine with me today. Great job. It even snapped to the route when driving back to startingpoint.
Would be nice if the map would Zoom in when almost at the point of arrival, when this can be shown on map with lower zoom level.

[packham]

Just try Cloudmade and it works great. Is it possible to set the starting point when computing the navigation path?  I understand that using Cloudmade service will require internet connection. But for example if I plan to go from point A to point B in another country X which I know I wan't have internet connection when I'm there. So I would need to be able to compute the route from A to B in advance and save it for offline use. I don't know how to do this at the moment. Thanks.

[Menion]

just use "Add new route" function that allow you to draw complex path between many points ...

[packham]

just use "Add new route" function that allow you to draw complex path between many points ...

Yep I know that, but then that is a manual method isn't it? What I mean is that, since you are trying out Cloudmade API to automatically calculate route from the current GPS position to a designated point, perhaps you could also add the option to select any starting point which might not be the current GPS position. Just a feature suggestion  

[svartbjorn]

That is exactly what you do with "Add new route". Here you specify start point and all via points until target point. For each added point Locus/CloudMade calculates the  route and navigation. When finished with the last point, save the route. Later you select the stored route just like any other track in the Tracks menu.