Locus Map - forum

Development => Discussion/New features => Topic started by: menion on August 03, 2011, 15:53:48

Title: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on August 03, 2011, 15:53:48
I'm opening this topic for discuss about new feature for Pro users, "Navigation" from data downloaded by CloudMade service.

I need to tell you, not to expect something like fully working voice navigation. This is something I don't really want to do. Voice navigation is done in my second project SmartMaps and I have "full teeth" of some voice navigation things :). Anyway main purpose of this feature is to allow some better guiding on preloaded tracks. There will be also possibility to define own tracks with some "directions" commands with some small extension to GPX file.

So try, test, use, and let me know if it's better then nothing ;)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 04, 2011, 20:43:05
Really great!
However, I have some ideas.
The problem now is that when turns are close after each other, the screen gets overloaded with turn directions, and you do not see what is the actual directions for the next turn.

May I suggest the following:
=========================
- remove all the turn directions from the screen and rather create a popup window at the bottom of the map area (just above the bottom menu line). This window shows the guiding text for the next turn. As soon as you have made the turn, the turn directions for the next are shown.

- with this pop-up window approach, you have given yourself the freedom to add more text info later without messing up the screen (e.g. time to turn, not only distance).

- by having "GPS Off", you could manually move the map along the track and the turn directions could pop up as you move.

Questions:
==========
 - the distance to next turn, would it be possible to continuously update that number as you are approaching the turn?

 - would it be possible to include the feature of recalculating the route if you miss a turn?

Voice guiding: I think this is not important. I have a Garmin Nuvi car navigator and I usually have voice turned off. I rather keep an eye on the turn directions on the screen.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 04, 2011, 20:46:41
thanks for feedback, anyway I'll probably release some "navigation beta version" tomorrow on market and then we should start talk about improvements. I did a some piece of work on improvments today, so I'm sure, you'll like it ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: dibrial on August 06, 2011, 17:10:42
I agree with all things svartbjorn says. I noticed the needs for these functions during our Czech round trip and we are leaving the day after tomorrow. Would be great to test it. I have all the trips cloudmade routes ready on my device.

P.S. I also see some translations for dynamic zooming and midpoint 1/4 screen. Are these included in the beta also? I would really like this, because it will give me an extra zoom level during driving.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: dibrial on August 06, 2011, 17:20:03
Hey Menion,
Sorry, I didn't see there was already a beta with some functions available in the forum. I will have a look at it.
I was a bit distracted from the forum, because of those yellow/black insects flying around. :x .......irritating stingy beasts.... :twisted: AAAUUUCH!!!!
Do you always have that many wasps in CZ? ;)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 06, 2011, 18:03:49
no wasps in czech now :) we have really rainy days so absolutely no flyes, wasps etc :))

anyway, new version is actually heading to market, so test and report feedback ... I'm sure you'll be smiling when you see result of my work :))
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 06, 2011, 22:00:47
Thank you for new release 1.9.6 (released today August 6). Two comments:

1) I tried the navigation with turn directions. You still have all the turn directions on the screen and when you zoom the map out, it is just overloaded with text and you neither can read the next turn direction nor see the streets. Sorry, I still think you would need to move the next turn directions into a separate window, which only shows the upcoming turn and not all the turns at the same time as it is today.  You mentioned something about some improvements in this new release, but I do not see any changes here from the previous release 1.5.4. Am I missing anything here?

2) Guiding: I don't know when the following command disappeared: With guiding on, two commands in the guiding popup window used to be "Nearest point" and "Next point". Now "Next point" is gone. This was a very important command as we talked about when you implemented that a long time ago (if you pass a waypoint at a distance larger than Guiding/"Set next point", then the guiding will never jump to the next point).
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 07, 2011, 08:47:10
1) I still don't understand. What you mean by all directions? You mean red points on map that display text when you move your map center over them? But these are as regular points and when you're navigating, I expect you have some closer zoom so you don't see this values

2) when you test it, you'll see then next point is not needed here. I completely changed system how guiding is computed on background. I know it will need some new testing and improvements in code, but I'm ready to do it. Actual system is searching for nearest point on tracks with every move and from this point I'm computing path in distance you define for automatically switch. So when you set "Switch to next point every 100m", I find firstly nearest point on track, then I compute first point in way you go that is far then 100m and I set guiding on it.

I know it should sound complicated but it have few advantages. Main is that you do not need something like next point, because it will always choose nearest point on track so when you take some shorcut, it will automatically "snap" to track when you get close enough. And second main advantage for me, is that I need this system. When you compute track with CloudMade service, you'll get something like "navigation" now. And for this I need closest point!

EDIT: anyway when you find "Next point" still as important, it can be returned back. It's still possible
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 07, 2011, 12:21:09
1) Navigation:
=============
 My fault. I incorrectly enabled guiding to the first red point as I used to do for guiding on tracks. By selecting guiding to the navigation route (the small turn symbol) I got it right.
THIS IS AWESOME, Menion! You were right in what you said before the relase: I got a smile on my face when I saw what you have implemented! That turn popup window with real time distance is really great. And the guiding line that pops up when you move away from computed route is also really great.

I guess the text next to each red dot may be hard to move into a popup window since you are probably reusing the existing feature of adding points to track recording?
It would have two great benefits if it were possible to move the turn guiding text to the Turn popup window (or probably a new, not that tall popup window next to the Turn window such that it doesn't cover too much of the map area):
 - if you have computed a track over e.g. 100 km distance and zoom out to get an overview of the computed track, there is so much red guiding text covering most of the map area that you do not see the track any more. And this text is only of interest as you approach the next turn, so the right place for it is in a popup window showing one turn at a time.
- this guiding text would be much easier to read if shown in a popup window with a background color. Remember - this is something you need to be able to read with a quick look on the map while driving.

The guiding text today is like "Turn right on Sunset Road 1.3 km". That is 3 items of information: How to turn, name of road, distance. You already have 2 of these (1st and 3rd) covered in your Turn popup window, so you could limit the text to only display the name of the road.

Your moving car is great! You are showing a car no matter if I select navigation for car, bike or walking. Would it be possible to show a bike/walking person if those navigation modes are selected? This is of course not important at all - just a funny thing.

One more thing: the Turn popup window disappears when the last turn is done. However, it would be useful if you kept the window and changed the turn indicator to a Goal symbol with remaining distance.

2) Guiding:
==========
I see. I was not aware of that. Great.
However, I see two types of guiding:
- Guiding along a computed TRACK: Here you want to be guided along the TRACK and the waypoints themselves are not of particular interest.
   Here your new way of guiding and automatic jumping to next point is really great and better than it was before. No changes here.
- Guiding to a particular WAYPOINT on the track: here you really want to find that point and you want the guiding to that point even if you pass it.

May I suggest the following:
- When you tap a point on a computed track today, you get a popup window with the commands "i <track name>", "i <point>", "Guide On", etc.
     -- Here "Guide On" = today's guiding along a TRACK. No changes here.
     -- Tapping "i <point>" today pops up another window with 4 command/symbols: +, map, tools, navigation. Could you here add a 5th command/symbol - Guiding - just as you have today for a POI?
So when you have found that particular waypoint, you can select "Guide On" to the track again.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 07, 2011, 12:39:56
thanks for long reply. Many things your wrote are already in my mind. I think that most important is if "navigation" works correctly so if it snap to track and show valid values etc. When this will work fine, I'll look on it from "design" sign and do of course some improvements! Only one thing about text - this is text I receive directly from CloudMade, it's not mine. I'll have to separate it into parts, allow people who translate to translate it and then write it somewhere on screen ... this anyway later ;)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: dibrial on August 07, 2011, 14:57:22
Navigation worked fine with me today. Great job. It even snapped to the route when driving back to startingpoint.
Would be nice if the map would Zoom in when almost at the point of arrival, when this can be shown on map with lower zoom level.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: packham on August 07, 2011, 15:27:27
Just try Cloudmade and it works great. Is it possible to set the starting point when computing the navigation path?  I understand that using Cloudmade service will require internet connection. But for example if I plan to go from point A to point B in another country X which I know I wan't have internet connection when I'm there. So I would need to be able to compute the route from A to B in advance and save it for offline use. I don't know how to do this at the moment. Thanks.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 07, 2011, 15:33:24
just use "Add new route" function that allow you to draw complex path between many points ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: packham on August 07, 2011, 20:30:19
Quote from: "menion"
just use "Add new route" function that allow you to draw complex path between many points ...

Yep I know that, but then that is a manual method isn't it? What I mean is that, since you are trying out Cloudmade API to automatically calculate route from the current GPS position to a designated point, perhaps you could also add the option to select any starting point which might not be the current GPS position. Just a feature suggestion  :)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 07, 2011, 20:52:08
That is exactly what you do with "Add new route". Here you specify start point and all via points until target point. For each added point Locus/CloudMade calculates the  route and navigation. When finished with the last point, save the route. Later you select the stored route just like any other track in the Tracks menu.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 07, 2011, 20:59:02
exactly. But first step before adding points, press third button on new panel to active track compute ;) .. this is probably what you miss ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 07, 2011, 21:10:27
Auto-zoom, speed controlled:
=============================
You have the auto-zoom feature with auto zooming based on speed. I remember there were a lot of discussions about that feature some time ago. Were this requested by bikers? If so, I guess the speed classes need to depend upon what you are doing - running, biking, driving. User selectable? I do not see how I personally would use speed controlled zooming, so I am just asking what you think?
Question: which zoom level is displayed if it is not available?

Auto-zoom, distance controlled:
=============================
For navigation all car navigators that I know of on the market, use "distance to turn" to control the auto zoom. When you are driving on a motor way at 100km/h and are approaching an exit, you want to see the exit details way before you start slowing down to make the turn. So SPEED controlled auto zoom is not very useful here. Rather DISTANCE controlled zooming is very useful!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: packham on August 07, 2011, 21:41:54
Quote from: "menion"
exactly. But first step before adding points, press third button on new panel to active track compute ;) .. this is probably what you miss ...

Oh yes. Indeed that's what I missed!   Thank you menion and svartbjorn  :D
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: berkley on August 09, 2011, 07:13:59
Just noticed, that the navigation directions on top left corner covers the little compass icon while map rotation is enabled...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 09, 2011, 08:02:12
thanks, I know, have to do something with this ... ad viewtopic.php?f=10&t=912#p5269 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=912#p5269)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: berkley on August 09, 2011, 09:39:46
What about a quick route calculation feature for the cases that you don't have GPS but Internet connection?

I think about planning some routes going from adress A to B while sitting at home...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 09, 2011, 09:51:49
I hope you know that this is already there :)
Title: Re: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: jusc on August 09, 2011, 19:18:52
Quote from: "berkley"
What about a quick route calculation feature for the cases that you don't have GPS but Internet connection?

I think about planning some routes going from adress A to B while sitting at home...

Use "Funktionen/Neue Route hinzufuegen" than the icon in the middle and choose car, cycle or walking. Add at least two points and look what happens. :-)
Works very well
J.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: berkley on August 09, 2011, 21:35:09
Guys, I know about this ;)

I meant something like a direct way to start navigation. At the moment, you have to have the POI's you'd like to travel between stored in the POI database.

I was talking about some direct input. Just like the method (should I say UI) on google maps on desktop.
- click the function "add new route"
- a popup appears where you can select between
   + starting point (enter adress or google places point or whatever)
   + ending navigation here (enter again adress or google places or whatever)
   + add new point between those above
- finally the button "calculate route"

Hope you understand now ;)

Cheers :D
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 09, 2011, 23:41:13
I was thinking about something like that. Before few days I have no idea about creating some "navigation" so don't hurry on me :). Firstly functionality, then some new GUI :)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 11, 2011, 21:42:20
I just installed the new release 1.9.7 and tried the nice improvements of CloudMade navigation. Here is something I found trying an "GPS Off" navigation:

-  when I turn on guiding, both using parameter "Yours" or "CloudMade", the created track SOMETIMES changes color to green with a wide outline, no matter which color it has originally. Green is not a good color when the map background is green. I understand the good intention of changing color when  a track is selected for guiding, but that should either be user selectable or not change. In Settings > Guiding > "Style on map" the user can select a color, but that changes only the color of the guide line, not the track. Either this setting should also apply to the track when guiding is on, or there should be a separate color selection for guided track. "Track width" should be an entry here like similar settings in Miscellaneous and in Track Recording. I created 5 tracks, and the color change only happened on 3 of them. The other tracks changed only color to the inverse (blue --> yellow) as it always does when the the map center is over a track. Weird.

- the new look of the turn popup window is nice. However, SOMETIMES, BUT NOT ALWAYS,  it incorrectly shows a straight up-arrow until it is about 2-4 meters left to the turn. Then the correct turn indicator is shown. On the map (overlaid on the streets) , the turn indicator is correct. The turn indicator in the popup window should show the upcoming turn all the time. This only happened on a couple of tracks I created, and only for the first  turns, After some turns, the indicator behaved correctly.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 15, 2011, 15:43:52
I used the CloudMade navigation on a long car trip this weekend. I have mentioned some of these points in previous posts in this thread, but I include everything in a summary here:
1) green highlighting of a CloudMade track with Guiding On doesn't work, since on green background, which is extensively used in maps like Eniro, you don't see it at all. Need user selectable color.
2) speed controlled auto zoom is not usable for car navigation. Need distance controlled auto zoom as used in all car navigators on the market.
3) when zoom a bit out, the car symbol orientation is not stable, but rotates 90 degrees to both sides within seconds. Also often is detected off the track, such that the guiding line comes on.
4) the next turn has a nice white arrow overlaying the intersection on the map, but that causes the turn text to disappear. AFTER the turn is made, then the turn text pops up.
5) when zooming out to see a larger part of the track, the many turn text frames covers most of the map such that you see neither the map nor the text
6) item 4 and 5 above clearly show that the the turn text need to be moved away from all over the map and into a dedicated popup that displays the turn text only for the upcoming turn (refer my earlier posts)

Hope you find this feedback useful.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 21, 2011, 21:01:55
I tried the CloudMade navigation of the new version 1.10.0, which was released today.

One great improvement I liked very much, is the new color used to high light a CloudMade track when selected for guiding. The new purple color is perfect and should be clearly visible on all kind of map backgrounds.

When guiding is turned on for a track, all the turn text disappear, but I think this is better than it was before (stayed on all the time) since now the map and streets are not covered with text labels. I found a useful feature in Locus: Setting > Map > "Show labels". I changed it from Always to "On hover". This removes all turn text from the map until you hit one guiding point with the map center cross (paning the map manually), causing the turn text for just that point to pop up.I certainly understand that things take time to improve and implement, but in a longer run I still hope that the turn text will be moved into a separate popup window (refer earlier posts).

I found one issue with the turn arrow in the large popup window when it comes to roundabouts: it is just confusing and definitely needs improvements: When you approach a roundabout, the turn indicator is a straight arrow telling you to go straight ahead. And the picture shows an intersection of two roads crossing. When you are in the roundabout, the turn indicator in some cases remains a straight arrow, in some cases changes to show a right turn, even when you shall not take the first exit. The turn indicator in this window should show a roundabout with correct exit arrow. I have no problems in understanding that this may be difficult to improve if the navigation info you get back from CloudMade doesn't tell if this is a roundabout and which exit to take. Anyway, this is just my feedback so you are aware of this issue.

And as said before - distance controlled auto zoom would be very useful.

Keep up the great work! Always very exciting each time a new release of Locus is available!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 22, 2011, 16:06:00
Well done Menion, the cloudmade navigation seems superb so far - I am really pleased :-)

Just one question though...

Is it possible to load up a .gpx route that I have made and get the turn by turn images for that?

I know cloudmade will compute a route for me from A to B.  But if I have already planned a route in Google Earth and imported my .gpx file into Locus, am I able to get the turn by signs please?

Cheers and GREAT work as always.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 22, 2011, 17:06:09
Anyone know how to change the icon of the car please?
Cheers.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 22, 2011, 17:51:17
thanks svartbjorn, your posts are always welcome. Roundabout will be in today (mainly bugfixes release) but still with wrong images (only fixed sounds now) because my graphics need some time to create images ... but it will be

phoneguy ..
to be able to navigate on another GPX file then from cloudmade, there is need to add some more info into gpx file

Code: [Select]
     <rte>
          <rtept lat="51.17500" lon="4.39630"></rtept>
          <rtept lat="51.17600" lon="4.39630"></rtept>
          <rtept lat="51.17700" lon="4.39630">
              <desc>Head south on Perckhoevelaan, 0.1 km</desc>
              <extensions>
                  <turn-angle>269.0</turn-angle>
              </extensions>
          </rtept>
          <rtept lat="51.17600" lon="4.39630"></rtept>
          ...

so turn-angle is minimum that is needed in route point to have behavior as navigation point. At least I hope this sample will work :). Data sample from CloudMade is here for example http://developers.cloudmade.com/project ... x-response (http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/routing-http-api/examples/gpx-response), but this exactly will not work (if imported). So try mine ...

About icon ... it's not final icon. New is in creating ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 22, 2011, 21:31:55
Excellent, thanks for the reply Menion.

One bit of trouble I am having though - and its probably my own fault but maybe someone can help me out.

When I compute a cloudmade route, do I have to hit every single turn for it to work?  I mean, lets say my route has 10 turns, but I take an alternatie road at turn 4 and so miss out turn 4 altogether.  It seems that the software does not then see that I am back on the route and ready to hit turn 5, instead it does the long line-of-sight guiding arrows telling me I need to go back and do turn 4.

Is that correct or should it just pick up that I am back on route?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 23, 2011, 06:19:37
I'll explain how my system work and maybe you (or anyone other) will have better idea. Everytime, Locus receive new location (or you move with map when GPS is off), I test lines to next five points and find nearest point. And that's all :) ... i then switch guiding "blue arrows" to next point after this nearest and also do some more computation with main navigation points that have some direction orders.  So when you return to track, guiding should automatically switch to nearest point (everytime new location comes, it move closer to you by five points). To get car as symbol, you have to be closer then 50m to nearest point on track. Hope that you understand my system (my explanation) a little.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 23, 2011, 09:41:38
phoneguy100:
----------------
 what Menion explains here, works incredibly well! I just tried it again this morning when driving car to work. I took an alternative road one place and the blue arrow showed up with the great guiding line pointing to where the closest point was at the CloudMade route (continuously updating). When I joined the calculated route again, the blue arrow changed back to the car symbol and the navigation was back on track. Works perfectly!

Menion:
--------
I downloaded your latest version this morning. How great you now have the name of the road in a new window at the top!
I noticed the following:

- the name shown is the name of the road I am currently is driving on. I used Navigon some time back, and it has a similar window. However - but tapping the window, it could change between the name of the road you currently are on, and the name of the road you will turn into. That is very useful. When driving on motorways for example, you have these signs with exits and the name of exit road, and then you really want to see this name on your navigator.
So I really would like to suggest this feature. To tell which mode shown, I suggest an arrow symbol at the left of the road name: a straight arrow indicates that the name of the road you are currently on, is displayed; a 90 degrees turn arrow indicates that the name of the road you are turning into, is displayed. You switch between these two modes by tapping the name window.

- I noticed that the waypoint just before a roundabout is displaying correct text, like "Take 3rd exit". However, the turn window shows a 90 degrees right turn (I guess because that is what you do when entering the roundabout). When in the roundabout, it immediately changes to a 45 degrees right turn for the exit, even if your exit is the 2nd or the 3rd. I understand that you are working on a new roundabout image, so I guess this will be fixed then.

- When in a roundabout, the text in the "road name window", displays "he roundabout".
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 23, 2011, 09:56:01
thank svartbjorn. Perfect as usual. I'll look at your suggestions. About text in title. In cloudMade data isn't current name of road, so I get this info from decsription of actual navigation point (to be precise - from previous nav point), so if there will be some problem (like you describe), please send me start and end point of track that goes over some problematic place and I'll compute on my phone and fix this text problem. Some with any other problems, like wrong arrow on some cross, etc. There will be probably problem on CloudMade site, but never know .. rather check at mine
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 23, 2011, 10:15:38
Quote from: svartbjorn
phoneguy100:
----------------
 what Menion explains here, works incredibly well! I just tried it again this morning when driving car to work. I took an alternative road one place and the blue arrow showed up with the great guiding line pointing to where the closest point was at the CloudMade route (continuously updating). When I joined the calculated route again, the blue arrow changed back to the car symbol and the navigation was back on track. Works perfectly!

Thanks alot for that menion and thanks for helping so muc svartbjorn.
I know exactly what you mean svartbjorn and that is exactly how I thought it would work as it tested it like that - but it didnt.  Now in all fairness, it did seem to fail in 'guide reverse', but I will try it again properly today and report back.
Also got the new version this morning and am really looking forward to testing it,  :D
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 23, 2011, 10:54:07
in new version should be fixed only one crash during start. But by the comment on Free version on market ... not fixed completely :/ ... anyway for reverse mode, navigation do not work. For reverse it works in same way as "old guiding method".
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 23, 2011, 14:10:03
so reverse guiding does not work, thanks for letting me know menion as I thought I was going mad as tested the reverse navigation many times and couldnt get it to work.  lol

Cheers :-)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 23, 2011, 14:14:12
I'll do it later. After cca hour testing I decided to leave it be for now. Because I need to recalculate many things before I start guiding ... so it will be, but later ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 24, 2011, 21:54:10
Quote from: "menion"
In cloudMade data isn't current name of road, so I get this info from decsription of actual navigation point (to be precise - from previous nav point), so if there will be some problem (like you describe), please send me start and end point of track that goes over some problematic place and I'll compute on my phone and fix this text problem.

Attached is a CloudMade track where the road name displayed in the top navigation window is the name of the road I am currently driving on.

This track also illustrates another issue:
- Guiding sounds: I enabled "Guiding sounds" in Settings > Guiding.  I set Waypoints > "Type of sound notification" = "Beep on distance" amd Tracks > "Type of sound notification" = "Beep when you move too far from track". That caused Locus to beep something  like every 5-10 seconds or so, even though I was on the track. My conclusion from this is that there must be a lot of small track points and no waypoints. And I noticed that with Guiding On, you can see  a lot of small black points with equal distance along the track (see attached track), but the funny thing is that the distance between them is constant independent of zoom. Can you explain what this is?

- From the above I further noticed that the distance displayed in the large turn never shows 0 when at the turn point (red dots), rather is shows about 50-100m still left (try attached track). Why is that? Isn't the distance left calculated to the red dot? Doesn't seem to be.

- The larger red dots with navigation infomation also seem to be track points, not waypoints. Is that correct? Would it be possible to define them as waypoints? That would allow to have "Guiding sounds" enabled and get one beep before each turn. That would be a very useful feature! As I mentioned above, Locus is now beeping all the time.

- Automatic/manual recalculation: I choose another road, there is no way to recalculate other than to actually create the track from scratch. Since Locus knows when you are not on the track (blue arrow pops up), I guess that easily could trigger automatic recalculation. Since this requires internet access, this feature should probaly be user selectable (enable/disable). If disabled, tapping the small guiding popup window could show a new command: "Recalculate route" (from current position).

- When off track (Blue arrow pops up), the turn window continues to show the turns along the computed track as they pass as closest points. That doesn't make sense. I suggest the turn window doesn't show anything if off track (blue arrow). - Or maybe it could change to show the command/symbol "Recalculate"?

- One last thing: as I mentioned in an earlier post, the feature used in Navigon that tapping the top popup window toggles between showing the name of the road you are on and the road you will turn into. Refer pearlier post how to indicate which mode is active.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 26, 2011, 18:58:22
Just some observations from using the voice navigation over the past few days...

My first problem is that although the route is the colour red which I set as it is easiest to see... when guiding is on the route is shown in dark purple/blue which conflicts with motorway road colours of blue and make following the route and seeing parts of the motorway (UK) very difficult indeed to diferentiate between.

Which leads to me to my next observation....

I was travelling down the motorway (UK) today and the route had me to come off at the next exit.  The problem was that (as stated above) the route colour when guiding was swtiched on was the same colour at the motorway and all lanes so it was very very difficult to see where my exit was coming.  The guiding arrow in the top left showed me to go straight on and the voice navigation kept telling me to go straight on.  I thought this was my exit so glanced at the screen and couldnt see where the exit was because of the colour clash and the navigation voice kept telling me to go straight on... so I did and in fact missed my turn.  It was completely misleading.

Another thing that is annoying to a degree is when going off the guided navigation route, the voice navigation stil speaks instructions.  I think that the voice navigation and turning symbols should cease completely untill you are back on your guiding route.

Guiding navigatin voices are speaking in 'metres' yet the arrow distance reads out in 'feet'.

Just a few observations there menion and good folks of this forum - loving Locus though and think the navigation thing is a superb addition.
Cheers menion :-)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 27, 2011, 07:59:12
Quote from: "phoneguy100"
using the voice navigation
I must have missed something here - voice navigation? How do you turn that on? I have checked through all the menues and only guiding sound I can find, is the Setings > Guiding > "Guiding sounds" enable, which only enables beeps when the guiding steps from track point to track point.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 28, 2011, 19:07:06
yes, tap on turn arrow ;) ... anyway all your very nice information are now included in Locus, like switching name, beeping, turning arrow when out of track, etc ... I did a lot of improvements, so if you'll have again some time and will want to test, it's more then welcome!!

phoneguy: It's really hard to find optimal color that should be visible on many different maps :) .. anyway I did again some improvements, so test next version. About the sound, it's more complicated. I'll look at it tomorrow, but I'm worried that angle associated with place where you have to exit motorway, is close to zero, so it looks like "straight". I'll at it, if there is not any clue to say something like "here exit motorway", rather then "go straight" ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: phoneguy100 on August 28, 2011, 22:59:04
Oh of course, I see your point menion.  The angle to exit the motorway was extremely slight as it is a 'slip lane' afterall.  Yes, I now see that it is difficult to get the software to recognise such a slight angle.

When I set a route in regular mode in Locus I always pick bright red as the route colour.  An option to change the calculated navigation route colour just like you can change other colours would be great.  I suppose a kind of stripey line would be out of the question?  Just a thought as to what would be best to be seen although a stripey route would probably look aweful.  lol

If there was a way for the nav voice to know the motorway exit was coming up and for it to speak about the exit then yes, that would be so much better than the 'go straight'.

Thanks menion, gonna grab the latest version of pro now.  :-)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 29, 2011, 09:26:32
About voice navigation:
Quote from: "menion"
yes, tap on turn arrow
When I do so, I get a popup window saying "Choose voice" and on the line below only one option - "No voice". So no matter where I then tap, I do not get any option to enable voice navigation (have tried with Settings > Guiding > "Guiding sounds" enabled and disabled, but I assume these settings are only for the waypoint/track point sound notifications).
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on August 29, 2011, 09:35:59
hmm, looks like you miss something .. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=968 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=968) ;)

EDIT: seems that information about exiting from highway is really missing in CloudMade datas ... so I create new issue (http://http://developers.cloudmade.com/issues/show/973) on their tracker and we'll see
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 30, 2011, 22:46:13
Thanks a lot for the new release 1.11.0 today!!
Really a lot of great improvements!!!

- the guiding sound on each red point: By trying different values in the Settings > Guiding > distance fields , I figured out that it is the Track > "Set next point" that defines the distance for notification sound. Works great!! This is perfect! May be you shoudl modify the description text for that setting to explain that this is also for turn notification.

- the new image for roundabout in the turn window is a great improvement. The number in the middle telling which exit is really great. What about having a corresponding image with a white line in the roundabout and with a white arrow at the right exit?

- turn arrow now changes into a question mark when off route: great! I like that. But the distance below keep running. May be you should turn that off too.

- top window displaying road name: the new feature to select between two modes - name of road I am driving on, or name of road I will turn into - is perfect!!! How great! Love it! Tested. Works great!

- new target/goal symbol in turn window: great! One small detail: if I select the top window to display the road I will turn into at the next turn, this will display "Unknown street" for the last leg. What about displaying the target symbol instead?

- may I suggest a new, very useful feature show another small window along the bottom of the screen (just above the bottom command line) with 3 or 4 fields. Each field can be selected by tapping to display additional information like:
       --- distance to goal
       --- bearing (N, NE, E, SE, etc)
       --- altitude
       --- speed
       --- current time
       --- time to next turn assuming current speed
       --- I guess time to target would be hard to calculate since I guess you do not have info of speed limits on the streets ahead?
       By tapping a field you get a popup window to choose which item to display

- recalculate? Would it be possible to have that as an option when I tap the turn window?

Congratulations with so many great improvments, Menion!!!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on August 31, 2011, 22:26:17
After using the latest version one more day, I have some additional comments:

- referring to my previous post: add the following item to the list of additional items that could be selected for display at my suggested new info window at the bottom:
     --- distance travelled
  Such user configurable fields are available at some car navigators and set them apart from competitors. So Locus - please, this is very useful and a great benefit

- taping the large navigation window (turn window): today you get a popup window with two entries: Itinery (which is really nice), and Choose voice. Taping "Choose voice" displays "no voice" + a list of available voices.
   I am suggesting to add one more entry: "Notification Beep" (or maybe "Beep before turn" ?) By selecting this entry, a new popup allows you to set the distance for notification. This will set the entry in Settings > Guiding > Tracks > "Set next point" and enable "guiding sounds". My point here is that it would be much more convenient to set this directly from the turn window as suggested. "No voice" should turn off the guiding sound as well.

- as mentioned above,taping the turn window pops up a window with the two entries "Itinery and "Choose vocie". Please add a 3rd entry "Recalculate" (also refer previous posts) - but maybe this entry could be twice as tall to make it easier to hit while driving.

- off rote: I have noticed several times that if I take another route, the blue guiding line that is supposed to point to the closest point, doesn't do that always. Some times it stops following and get stuck at a point far back. If I tap "Nearest point" it jumps to the true closest point. I have several examples where the blue line says that closest point is more than 1km away, while I actually only have 100 m left from rejoining the route. In those cases I have also noticed that Locus doesn't immediately detects that I am back on route, even though I am right on the route - rather I have to follow the route for several seconds before Locus understands that I am back. You can easily recreate such cases by manually moving the map GPS off).
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 06, 2011, 10:53:53
An issue I discovered today:
I created a CloudMade route some days ago. It navigated fine displaying the name of the road in the top window. Everything correct. However, today I enabled this same route, but now the top window displays "Unknown street" along the whole route. When I turn off guiding to see the red dots, they all are correct displaying the name of the roads, so the information is there.

I tested this issue today by creating a new track along the same road, stored it, restarted Locus and enabled guiding on the saved track. All road names came up correctly on this track.

I have attached the failing track. Hope you can see what the issue is.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 06, 2011, 10:59:23
you tried this on road saved with previous locus version right? I changed system for storing this info (to be faster when getting value during navigation) so old stored tracks will have some problems as you wrote. Thank you for reports Svartbojrn. I'll all read carefully later. I'm just doing some bug fixes and some needed improvements and i'll start work on navigation during next week again ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 06, 2011, 12:14:07
Quote from: "menion"
you tried this on road saved with previous locus version right?
Correct. Ok, good to know why. No problem.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: stebu on September 07, 2011, 22:07:15
I tried this with Yoda:) On bigger roads/highways Yoda tells me on EVERY exit: "Straight ahead must you go!"
Is there anything I can do to avoid this? Maybe just drop the announcement "straight.ogg" from the zip, or will this cause another problem?
Also when I had to exit one big road to another and make a 270 degree turn, Yoda was telling me to go straight ahead (several times during the turn).
After a while it seemed that every announcement and the arrow was just "straight ahead"?
Maybe it is something about the CPU speed? ZTE Blade is not the fastest one around :(
But the track on the map is very clear, and the constant beeps are not so disturbing as Yoda. I'll be testing this further.

I strongly support the suggestion about an easy "recalculate button" or even an automatic recalculation GPS-position --> target when I'm lost for more than 10s ... 1min
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: VWitte on September 08, 2011, 22:41:09
Hi Menion,

the quick navigation option is really nice. However, I noted that in the start/end menue only favorite POIs can be used and it appears not straight forward to put existing POIs to favorites. Export/import works but it applies to all POIs of a category. If one changes the category of a given POI to favorites, it disappears from the previous category which is perhaps not desired. I have the following suggestions.

1) Perhaps add the option to use POIs from all categories for navigation.
2) Include a quick way to copy existing POIs to favorites.

Thanks!

Hope this was not raised elsewhere. Not easy to keep an overview.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 13, 2011, 17:32:21
stebu .. it's here mentioned problem http://developers.cloudmade.com/issues/show/973 (http://developers.cloudmade.com/issues/show/973) ... you may vote there to increase attention ;)

about "straight ahead" ... sounds funny :). i don't think it have something to do with speed of your phone. Do you have same issue on every track?

VWhite ... nice idea. I added "Copy to" function under POI menu, so you may copy POI from one directory to second

EDIT ... about 2 hours later ... so manual recompute added also. Now probably also some automatic recompute right? Hmm firstly we should test this manual one, and if all will works fine, I'll create probably new settings category (navigation) with first item "Automatic recompute". I'm just worried about one thing. When you ride and press recompute, I send current! location, but time needed between sending data and refreshing navigation, should be, depend on track length and internet connection speed, few seconds, so after that you'll be far away. Also their system do not support recompute in some direction, so it's possible that instead of direction forward, you'll receive track in opposite direction ... hope you understand me :). So with CloudMade system, I cannot create perfect navigation in Locus because their system do not allow this ... damn
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 16, 2011, 08:51:50
Re-compute:
===========
 With version 1.13.1 I have now tried this great new feature several times on several trips. Thank you for implementing that!

Here is what I found:
- recomputing works great every time, even when driving (your concern above).
- recomputing doesn't take your moving direction into account, only my position. So if I am driving away from my destination and tap Re-compute, I get new directions as if I were driving towards  my destination. But I understand from your post above Menion that it is a known CloudMade limitation, right? It's a pity.
- I haven't tested if CloudMade takes oneway streets into account. Does it? And does CloudMade take restrictions into account, like no left turn allowed here, no u-turn there, ...?

Taking another road and then rejoining route:
======================================
This doesn't work anymore (worked before). I have tried this many times and it doesn't work. The guiding line that is supposed to track nearest point, always gets stuck on a point  and stops following. When I rejoin the computed track, the guiding line is still stuck at a point far back, and Locus never understands that I am back on track. So the navigation/turn window keep showing a question mark. I have to tap "Nearest point". I reported this in an earlier post, but the issue persists.

Wishes:
======
Refer earlier posts by me.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 17, 2011, 14:32:08
Hi guys,
  new navigation version is here for testing. I changed server source for MapQuest. It's a much more complicated, it also transfer more data (I'll optimalize it) but it mainly offer some very useful data and tools, so testing version is here viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1013 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1013). Feedbacks are welcome

  stebu: problems with exit on highway, should be solved in testing version
  svartbrojn: thanks as usually for feedback. New version compute re-calculate in current direction! Rejoining route is still a problem, I know. And I still have no simple solution for this.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 19, 2011, 22:27:43
Re-compute
===========
Tested version 1.13.1.1 extensively today when driving by car. Re-compute with MapQuest works great! Also takes my moving direction into acount, so if I am moving away from my destination, it correctly computes proper turns to get back towards my destination (e.g. U-turns and using a roundabout to turn back. Very good!

MapQuest issue
==============
Found one funny thing: MapQuest always computes some distance (100-200 meters) beyond the last point I enter. When I continue with the next point, I get a double line for that distance. See attached track. There are three places you can see that double line. No big deal. Just want to mention it.

Yours/CloudMade/MapQuest selection gone!
========================================
Just installed version 1.13.1.2. Tapping the guiding selection (create route command line, 3rd button from left) used to pop up a menu where I could select Yours/CloudMade/MapQuest. This was still present in version 1.13.1.1, but is gone in version 1.13.1.2. Why? We need that!! The whole point with "Yours" was to be able to create a route with straight lines between the waypoints. We need that feature back. I used it extensively when flying. Also when walking in the mountains or woods without trails, I want a guiding along straight lines.

The new navigation selections (Limited access, Toll road, Unpaved, Ferry) are really great though! Thank you!

Navigation voice
===============
Navigation voice: when I choose a voice, the new selection is not highlighted blue until I quit Locus and restart it. If I just finish navigation (Guiding Off) and reselect navigation, the last selection is used correctly, but the previous selction is still highlighted.

What about including one navigation voice (English) with Locus. It is not straight forward to extract voices correctly from TomTom and other places. I am sure many people would appreciate at least one English voice included. I would suggest "Ken LOUD". I tried a lot of voices and found this one best.

Rejoing route
=============
Yes, still a problem. Worked in about 4 out of 8 cases today (version 1.13.1.1). When "Closest point" does follow, then Locus understands when I am back on track. So the real issue is the fact that the "Nearest point" gets stuck. Would one solution be if Locus executes the "Nearest point" command once in a while (e.g. every 10 seconds) in the background? Could you think of situations where you would not want that to happen?
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 20, 2011, 07:21:06
hi,
  re-compute - I know, it's nice feature on MapQuest server. I'm also sending together with current bearing, request that driver can react after 3 secs (maybe I'll change it to be depend on speed), so you'll not receive some turn request immediately but at least after 3 secs ... very nice (if you understand what I wanted to say :) )

  -issue: I know, have to check it

  -selection: yes, it's gone. Yours is slow and not always working, CloudMade is useless now. What exactly you miss? You're saying you miss straight lines. You can do straight lines simply by adding points by first button on "And new route" panel. But you probably mean, computed path but without some navigation orders am I correct? I was also think about it. What about one checkbox on selection panel with "Disable navigation". Which will just compute path by MapsForge but it will not store some navigation orders so you'll then be guided not with "car" and "voice" navigation but just with blue lines along path. So?

  voice:
   there is one big problem. I'm not sure (and I think it isn't) if using voices for TomTom is legal and if I can distribute such voice with Locus. That's the reason why no default voice is in Locus after install. Have to check other issues you write

   rejoing:
    this will not work. Imagine highway, and you want u-turn and go back in opposite direction. This u turn is more then mile away but gps signal is really back. So I apply "Nearest point" and locus switch you to opposite direction ... damn :)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 20, 2011, 09:39:52
- Create route with straight lines: sorry, of course this is in as before by turning off the guiding selection button (3rd button from left on the create route command line). I just mixed up things here yesterday. The old "Yours" selection was used to create a route without guiding. Your idea of having this selection as a tick box on the popup menu sounds great.

- Rejoining route: ok understand that automatic "Nearest point" in background may not work as we want. BUT - I understand you are using 50m as a limit to say if I am on the route or not (seems to be a very convenient limit. Works great). Can't you use the same criteria to determine if I am back on computed route? At rejoining I can see the blue arrow right on top of the created route. Can't that be a good enough criteria to tell that I am back on track?  Locus seems to use the blue guiding line to determine of I am back on track or not.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 20, 2011, 09:57:49
- checkbox to compute route without navigation is added

- 50m limit should not be enough in places with very wrong covering by OSM maps (there should be bigger mistake in map) so this can already be set in navigation settings

- and about joining. Hmm but you see blue arrow always pointing to right place on route when you join? This is not possible I think, because this blue arrow is computed from current used "break point" (point that contain some navigation orders). But as we talk about it, maybe I can do one more improvement. Something like nearest point, that will also check if your current bearing is same (or similar) to bearing of "nearest" vector ... hmm that should work, have to try it now :)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: Khaytsus on September 21, 2011, 14:15:51
I brought up in another thread: http://http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1117 the fact that there were a few mis-matched measurements, such as requesting a distance in Meters when set to Imperial measurements, etc..

One thing that came up was that Tom Tom voices only have Yards and Meters.  My opinion is that Menion should continue showing 600 feet on the display, but announce 200 yards.  What do you guys think?  Showing 200 yards would match better, but personally I'd prefer seeing feet.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 21, 2011, 15:42:39
Test version 1.13.1.3 doesn't work at all. It can show the car on a route, but suddenly it changes to the blue arrow. If I then tap Nearest Point, it selects the starting point of the created route. No way to make Locus understand that I am right on the route (purple line). Sorry, this version was worse than 1.12.1.2.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on September 21, 2011, 15:54:25
thanks, I just discovered this about an hour on own field test. One stupid mistake in angle compute. Sorry ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: Khaytsus on September 22, 2011, 23:30:57
Is there a way to stop navigation and delete the track easily?  Stop navigation is easy enough, but tracks is data->tracks->track->delete->yes.

I think it does seem to over-write the previous track, so making track after track is probably not a big deal, just have to delete the one track when I'm done, but it'd be nice to be able to stop navigation and remove the track in one step.  :)
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on September 26, 2011, 23:27:27
1.13.2 Pro navigation test report based on experience from several trips the last two days:

Great news:
==========
- when off-route, the guide line to nearest point is updated correctly all the time now! Just perfect!
- re-joining the route now works perfectly!
- the new auto re-compute route works perfectly!
- the two new entries in Settings > Navigation> "Distance for recalculate" and "Invalid distance" work great!

Issues:
======
The "overshoot" is still an issue. When a new point while creating a route, computed the route is drawn to a point beyond the selected point. Refer gpx file sent in an earlier post.

Wishes:
======
Refer earlier post August 30. The suggested new status line at the bottom (just above the bottom command line) with 3-4 fields with user selectable contents would be the crown now.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on October 02, 2011, 18:46:24
Installed version 1.13.3 today.
- Thank you so much for implementing my suggestion of a new status line with user selectable contents on the navigation screen. This is really great!! Thank you!!
- I created some navigation routes, and the overshoot issue with MapQuest seems to be gone. So you fixed something here?

Congratulations Menion with a great release and thanks again for all the great navigation features!!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on October 02, 2011, 20:08:14
you're welcome :) many improvements is thanks to you, so I thank you very much for reporting and support ;). I at the end, added only two panels on top, because when you shift map center and do not hide bottom panel, there is very low space above bottom panel for next panel, so I think, top part is fine ...

about overshoot. Yes, I filter all data before start point and after end point manually. I don't know why MapQuest return these data.

also In navigation is not voice command like "after x metres turn right then after Y metres turn ..." etc. Hope this will be helpful. MapQuest data are very nice because it contain also info like "keep in left line" or "exit highway" etc, so I think it's going to be fully working navigation now. I know, big disadvantage is required internet connection for route compute but I think it's not such big deal. And you can compute route at home in worst cases ...
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: Khaytsus on October 02, 2011, 22:01:47
Quote from: "svartbjorn"
Installed version 1.13.3 today.
- Thank you so much for implementing my suggestion of a new status line with user selectable contents on the navigation screen.
Where is this?  I have been looking around to see what it's about but not seeing it?
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on October 03, 2011, 07:50:32
Like all the navigation windows this status line shows up when you start navigation. So you create a navigation route as before, then you tap the command "Guide on" (on the create route command line) to start the guided navigation. At that point the large turn window, a small guide command window, a street name window on top, and this new status window below that show up. All these windows have menues and command below, which show up by tapping them. There are a lot of features here.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on October 04, 2011, 09:49:00
Discovered an error in the new navigation status line with the two user selectable fields:
- If I select "Time of arrival", it displays "Unknown" until I reach the destination whereupon it displays a time that makes no sense to me.
- If I select "Time to target", it displays "Unknown" until I reach the destination whereupon it displays a huge integer number with more than 8 digits.

I am assuming these fields are supposed to display the estimated time of arrival, not the actual time spent calculated after arrival.

What is the estimated arrival time based upon - speed limit on the streets chosen in the calculated route or an actual average speed the last minutes? The first one is what is used in other navigation apps. In that way you get a time even before you have started moving.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: Tusor on October 04, 2011, 10:12:24
First of all: Locus becomes better and better. Sometimes I start to wonder whether more features should be added, because it might become too many. But by now i love it.

With the last update (1.13.3) one question was raised: It says that the several navigation sources have pros and cons. Is there any list of them? Maybe someone can list them in a post / new topic. After that a link could be added either to the market description or within locus.
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: stebu on October 04, 2011, 10:57:21
Navigated with "autozoom", don't really like it :(. But it might be a little more useful, if it would be switched on only during navigation (setting: Off, while navigating, always on).

The voice guidance sometimes tells you lies in situation like "After 50m turn left then after 200m turn right". The second distance is often wrong (I think it might be the first distance repeated).

But these are minor things, the navigation (with Mapquest) gets me where I want to. And that's the major thing!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on October 04, 2011, 11:05:30
svart: there are some missing info in MapQuest data and some in CloudMade, that's why you see 'Unknown' text. But thanks, I'll look at it. It have to show correct value for whole navigation

tusor: no, compare is not yet ready but will be. For now, you have to check on your own. Main difference is that every server use different algorithm to compute route, so if should navigate you on other ways

stebu: please share with me start and end location and type of navigation (car fast, etc..). Small mistakes are also important so I have to check if this is problem in locus or in data

and about autozoom ... :) .. I know that it need some improvements to be fully functional also during navigation. In future for sure!
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on October 04, 2011, 21:44:34
Quote from: "svartbjorn"
Discovered an error in the new navigation status line with the two user selectable fields:
- If I select "Time of arrival", it displays "Unknown" until I reach the destination whereupon it displays a time that makes no sense to me.
- If I select "Time to target", it displays "Unknown" until I reach the destination whereupon it displays a huge integer number with more than 8 digits.

I am assuming these fields are supposed to display the estimated time of arrival, not the actual time spent calculated after arrival.

What is the estimated arrival time based upon - speed limit on the streets chosen in the calculated route or an actual average speed the last minutes? The first one is what is used in other navigation apps. In that way you get a time even before you have started moving.

hmm, when I'm trying it home, I cannot achieve weird values! As I wrote before, unknown values are there because speed information aren't in data from MapQuest (but are in Cloudmade - damn). What can I do to get this error? Did this happen to you only when you're out?
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: svartbjorn on October 05, 2011, 08:32:05
Refer my post above regarding the navigation status line. One more thing I discovered today: If I select "Time to next cross", the field shows correct value as long as I am moving. When I stop, the field displays a huge number (seems to be max number possible to store. Obviously what you get when calculated from speed =0. However, it looks too bad. It should rather display the latest calculated value that makes sense. So e.g if you have 2min left to next cross and have to stop, it should keep showing 2min. This is how car navigators work. Alternatively it could display "----".
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on October 05, 2011, 08:36:05
ah damn, thanks, that's it. I'm simulating it at home with some constant speed ... thanks
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: menion on October 05, 2011, 15:31:41
Quote from: "stebu"
Navigated with "autozoom", don't really like it :(. But it might be a little more useful, if it would be switched on only during navigation (setting: Off, while navigating, always on).

The voice guidance sometimes tells you lies in situation like "After 50m turn left then after 200m turn right". The second distance is often wrong (I think it might be the first distance repeated).

But these are minor things, the navigation (with Mapquest) gets me where I want to. And that's the major thing!

stebu thanks for email. But when I start navigation (car short) from point
N60.26443, E024.96231 to N60.26282, E024.85737, I heard correct values ...

heh, I've got it. You mean this way when you compute as "cycle" right? Nice :). When you disable navigation, you'll see on this path, red dots. These places contain navigation information, so you may see that there is "missing" point and that value you heard is for next cross and not the nearest ...
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: r2d2 on October 09, 2011, 09:16:42
not sure to be right here, I have a little point that i miss.

When I use Locus Pro with Navigation (MapQuest...) and I minimize Locus, there is no entry in the status-bar like using record a track. So may be it is not clear that locus is still running.

Please move this replay if needed.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: krzysiekz on October 09, 2011, 17:48:39
Is it possible to use android tts for navigation instead of prerecorded voice?
Title: Re: CloudMade "navigation"
Post by: stebu on October 10, 2011, 00:12:46
Quote from: "menion"
Quote from: "stebu"
The voice guidance sometimes tells you lies in situation like "After 50m turn left then after 200m turn right". The second distance is often wrong (I think it might be the first distance repeated).

stebu thanks for email. But when I start navigation (car short) from point
N60.26443, E024.96231 to N60.26282, E024.85737, I heard correct values ...

heh, I've got it. You mean this way when you compute as "cycle" right? Nice :). When you disable navigation, you'll see on this path, red dots. These places contain navigation information, so you may see that there is "missing" point and that value you heard is for next cross and not the nearest ...
I had my example incorrect. Today I heard on several occasions that the voice told me "after 100m join the motorway then after 50m take the exit right"; the exit was about 2km away!
All the times when the instructions were incorrect, the distance given for the "...then after x meters" was the distance for the first action. I don't have the original track, autorerouting "destroyed" it.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on October 10, 2011, 05:59:55
OK, I'll check code for next point .. and thanks krzysiekz, good idea with TTS ... implemented ;)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: svartbjorn on October 17, 2011, 12:25:54
I was last week on a business trip in USA and tried out Locus navigation on the freeways. In the US there are a *lot* of "No left turn"s. The MapQuest doesn't seem to supply any such information. That makes Locus navigation kind of useless. Here is a summary of this week's experience (with latest version):

- "No left turn" ignored by MapQuest. I didn't have the chance to check if "One way street" is ignored.
- exit from freeway is missing exit number
- top status line selected to show name of street turning into very often displays "Unknown". That is bad when exiting or entering freeways, since it is important to verify the street I am exiting to or freeway direction when entering. E.g. when I am entering freeway I95, the signs always display e.g. I95N and I95S. Then it is important that Locus displays that on the top status line. It doesn't do that.
- if I create a route in steps with via points in order to force a certain route, the voice says "You have reached your destination" for every via point. Since the route is shown continuing after the via point, Locus obviously knows it is not the final destination. Is it a way to rather say "You have reached your via point" ? Locus also always says "You have reached your destination" when I start the navigation by enabling guiding from the first point on the route. I assume this is the same issue.
- The 2nd status line with the two fields still displays "Unknown" if the field is selected to show "Time of arrival" or "Time to target".
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on October 17, 2011, 12:49:05
hmm thank you for report. I'm sure you understand that there is one big problem. And this is that big part of problems are on MapQuest side and on OpenStreetMaps side and not in Locus itself. I'll look on exit numbers if there aren't somewhere hide these info and also "You have reach destination" is surely problem on my side. Anyway some missing infos are really problem. Time of arrival cannot be simply computed because in Mapsforge data are missing speeds and times for parts of tracks. These values are in CloudMade data but they miss on other side other values ... damn :)

Also may you try to find some place on MapQuest map http://www.mapquest.com/ (http://www.mapquest.com/) where you'll get exit numbers or street names and these values are missing in Locus? Don't waste much time with this, I'll be searching too ...
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on October 20, 2011, 16:49:05
Menion,

I just got a chance finally to try TTS today..  Works pretty good, but a few suggestions...  Since it's TTS, can you make it say "feet" to match the units shown?  :)  We're not limited to "yards" when using TTS like when using TomTom voices.

Also, small bug..  if I choose a TomTom voice for example, it gives a small notification of the change worked and the voice menu closes.  For TTS, it just gives the notification and the menu remains open, which made me think it didn't work, although it did.

EDIT:  One more thing I've noticed..  Stuttering, so to speak.  Turn left in.. turn left.. turn left..  turn left in 30 yards.  I dunno why it's doing it, as I'm just approaching a normal left turn at a normal speed, no funny left-left-left type of turn or anything..  I've seen it on several occasions, and I've noticed it happen on the stock PICO TTS as well as SVOX so I think Locus must be sending that data to it repeatedly or something?

BTW, I am trialing SVOX as well.  I had the British voice on (I'm a sucker for the female british accent ;) ) but trying out the American voice today as well.  Haven't tried any other languages, so so far SVOX 3 is working okay.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: krzysiekz on October 20, 2011, 21:12:48
I updated svox main app and voice data to latest version but can't get in work :( Does it work with any other language than english?
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on October 21, 2011, 18:36:06
try new testing version
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: krzysiekz on October 22, 2011, 08:25:48
Tried test version and tts works this time. Voice says distance to turn, but it's different than distance displayed.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on October 22, 2011, 09:23:03
it says nearest lower value shorted by one second ... it should be cca valid distance to point. And if it do not exactly match displayed value this is probably not a problem. You have count that displayed value is also usually one second behind real value etc ...
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: VWitte on October 22, 2011, 21:10:01
Hi,

how can the navigation voice volume be controlled?

Thanks!

V.Witte
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: dibrial on October 30, 2011, 21:49:12
This would be great. I'm also struggling with volume control to adjust navigation volume.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on October 31, 2011, 07:17:38
volume control added to main dialog when you tap on navigation arrow (dialog with recalculate, itinerary ...)

EDIT: you may test it here viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1250#p7349 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1250#p7349)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: sbraunthal on November 03, 2011, 05:59:31
Greetings,

I just purchased the Locus Pro versions and am very pleased. One question for Navigation and the sources for directions.  I live in Bali, Indonesia and both CloudMade and Map Quest work ok, however the driving directions from Google are much more accurate, including many more street names. Are there any future plans to add Google directions as a source? Thank you so much.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on November 03, 2011, 06:49:08
hi,  
  unfortunately this is not possible. Google have very weird policy and allow to use their directions API only on google maps. Problem is there that i cannot use their google maps because they do not allow other access then with their android component which is absolutely useless for me. So sorry, but for now, I have no solution of this ...
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on December 19, 2011, 01:13:01
Quote from: "Khaytsus"
Menion,

I just got a chance finally to try TTS today..  Works pretty good, but a few suggestions...  Since it's TTS, can you make it say "feet" to match the units shown?  :)  We're not limited to "yards" when using TTS like when using TomTom voices.

Also, small bug..  if I choose a TomTom voice for example, it gives a small notification of the change worked and the voice menu closes.  For TTS, it just gives the notification and the menu remains open, which made me think it didn't work, although it did.

EDIT:  One more thing I've noticed..  Stuttering, so to speak.  Turn left in.. turn left.. turn left..  turn left in 30 yards.  I dunno why it's doing it, as I'm just approaching a normal left turn at a normal speed, no funny left-left-left type of turn or anything..  I've seen it on several occasions, and I've noticed it happen on the stock PICO TTS as well as SVOX so I think Locus must be sending that data to it repeatedly or something?

BTW, I am trialing SVOX as well.  I had the British voice on (I'm a sucker for the female british accent ;) ) but trying out the American voice today as well.  Haven't tried any other languages, so so far SVOX 3 is working okay.
Menion,

Could you look into this sometimes?  It still seems to announce in yards, although I'm not quite sure it's right..  Maybe a delay or something, but it'll say "in 400 yards" when in reality it's more like 600 feet.  Either way, could you make the TTS measurements and annoucements match the distance units?  :)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on December 20, 2011, 15:08:07
hi,
  problem with distance is weird ... I'll tell you in basic, how my system works.

new location comes from GPS, I then update location on map and start compute of new location on route. Locus compute nearest point projected on route and distance from this point to next cross. Lets say you ride 50km/h and you're now 510 metres to cross. I reduce distance to cross by one second of ride (to remove some GPS delay), so it's 460m and I'm then searching for closest text to say. Closest are 400 and 500m, so I take 500 in this case. Before I start search for text to say, I convert metres to yards if needed, so I just compute 460 * 1.09361 and search text for this.

you say "Either way, could you make the TTS measurements and annoucements match the distance units" but as I wrote, I'm already taking "metres" and "yards" units, so this should work correctly
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on December 20, 2011, 15:57:09
Quote from: "menion"
hi,
  problem with distance is weird ... I'll tell you in basic, how my system works.

new location comes from GPS, I then update location on map and start compute of new location on route. Locus compute nearest point projected on route and distance from this point to next cross. Lets say you ride 50km/h and you're now 510 metres to cross. I reduce distance to cross by one second of ride (to remove some GPS delay), so it's 460m and I'm then searching for closest text to say. Closest are 400 and 500m, so I take 500 in this case. Before I start search for text to say, I convert metres to yards if needed, so I just compute 460 * 1.09361 and search text for this.

you say "Either way, could you make the TTS measurements and annoucements match the distance units" but as I wrote, I'm already taking "metres" and "yards" units, so this should work correctly
Could you possibly change it to say the distance in feet?  Feet is a more common unit of measure vs yards, and most other navigation will say miles and feet as distances, .25 miles, 1000 feet, etc..  I'll have to pay more attention to see exactly where I'm getting voice prompts and figure out if there's a distance "issue".  It could be delays in generating the voice etc, dunno.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on December 20, 2011, 17:01:11
fine, I added new settings into settings ... (screenshot) ... possible?

so now, if feet/miles will be enabled and also TTS, distance will be said in feet ...

also please check as you wrote more carefully wrong distances, I'll for sure test it. Maybe you can record during ride NMEA messages. Then I'll be able to play whole track as I sit next to you. So good for testing on some places ...
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on December 20, 2011, 17:28:46
Quote from: "menion"
fine, I added new settings into settings ... (screenshot) ... possible?

so now, if feet/miles will be enabled and also TTS, distance will be said in feet ...

also please check as you wrote more carefully wrong distances, I'll for sure test it. Maybe you can record during ride NMEA messages. Then I'll be able to play whole track as I sit next to you. So good for testing on some places ...
Anyone told you that you're awesome recently?  ;)  Can't wait to see the new version, and if I have funny business with it, I'll record NMEA and get with you to figure it out.  :)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on December 20, 2011, 19:54:57
hmm feet complicates me a little bit whole system (because 800 feet (current limit) is just around 250m) so I improved whole system. Now you'll hear distance sounds in 10s, 30s and also 300s before cross so it will also tell you "after 3 miles, turn right", we'll see how this will work ... if you want to test now, version is here viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1404&start=20#p8598 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1404&start=20#p8598), otherwise I'll release version tomorrow
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on January 05, 2012, 14:15:28
Quote from: "menion"
fine, I added new settings into settings ... (screenshot) ... possible?

so now, if feet/miles will be enabled and also TTS, distance will be said in feet ...

also please check as you wrote more carefully wrong distances, I'll for sure test it. Maybe you can record during ride NMEA messages. Then I'll be able to play whole track as I sit next to you. So good for testing on some places ...
Hey Menion, I noticed today that there are a few spots where it shows feet when IMO it should show miles.  The points list and guiding.  I think generally most apps if the distance >528 feet they show .1 miles, etc, but right now Locus is showing thousands of feet, etc...   I can look around to see if there are any more places it does this today.  :)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: menion on January 05, 2012, 14:56:32
and do you have correctly set units in settings? I did some changes there so they're maybe set incorrectly, just to feet
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: Khaytsus on January 05, 2012, 15:00:57
Quote from: "menion"
and do you have correctly set units in settings? I did some changes there so they're maybe set incorrectly, just to feet
Duh, you added more since I first tried it, you're right, it's set to ft.  Last I looked it only had maybe 5-6 entries?  Thank you :)
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: gvmsia on January 10, 2012, 03:48:00
(note: eg refers to a roundabout like this (http://http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=3.093319&lon=101.646393&zoom=18&layers=M))
i'd like to suggest a rewording of instructions at a roundabout. attached are egs from Locus and one other nav app. there are 2 differences i can hear...
1. when approaching the roundabout, the road bends slightly left to ease entry into the circle. for that bend Locus says "bear left", but the other app doesnt bother with the bend. imo "bear left" is unnecessary.  
2. within the roundabout, Locus mentions the distance to the exit. i think the instruction should just be the exit number.

so something like this, "in X metres, enter the roundabout, and take the 2nd exit" is clear and concise. once in the roundabout just say "take the 2nd exit".
especially in smaller roundabouts, instructions need to be as short as possible.
Title: Re: Voice NAVIGATION
Post by: tommi on January 10, 2012, 13:09:00
Thanks gvmsia for this detailed description.
I think this is quite the same problem I reported here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1411 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1411)