Author Topic: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )  (Read 56029 times)

Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #165 on: October 02, 2017, 01:55:09 »
@Žajdlík Josef:
- understand, let's try it with 25m.
+1

@Andrew Heard:
2) hmm you are correct. <snip> So what about simply "Point from part N"?
+1

@Andrew Heard:
6) again for my surprise, no one complains till now :). I was thinking about dialog with simple options "Overwrite" or "Save as new". 
7) it is important to keep in mind, that route planner is made of planning of new route. If you on existing track tap on "Route planner", track is loaded to planner, but there is no connection to original track! This should be solved by point 6), but I'm really worried to save changes immediately to original track.
Menu > Route Planner > create new route... of course. But track > Route Planner > edit existing route > ("Save" > "yes|no") | "Save as new".  This is behavior of RWGPS system too.

I still question this sequence:
  • add NOGO
  • auto recalc
  • delete NOGO
  • no auto recalc but expect to be able to reverse operation (manual undo)
I still think add NOGO should have undo. And Delete NOGO should force auto recalc. It won't be obvious to a user to long-tap the Compute Source icon for Recalc All.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:01:11 by Andrew Heard »
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Offline Menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #166 on: October 02, 2017, 15:55:34 »
@Žajdlík Josef,
1) not so easy here to satisfy all options. Best should be probably define in every Nogo point it's validity to car/bike/foot based profiles. Then you should define it as nogo for car & bike and allow it for foot automatically.
2) (something to better handle them) later ;)

Other problems/questions/ideas related to no-go areas was probably already few times discussed. As I mentioned before, no-go areas won't be in next public version yet. I keep in mind all feedback, thanks for it, but no more changes around no-go areas will be implemented to next version(s) for now, sorry.

I need gather some more feedback from other, less skilled users + probably do one more usability testing that we from time to time do in our office on real users that usually never heard about Locus Map. Thanks for understanding.
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Offline lor74cas

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #167 on: October 02, 2017, 18:41:24 »
Hello,
This is what I mean with Locus or brouter profile

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Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #168 on: October 02, 2017, 19:34:11 »
Perceptions of using NOGO points.
1) The "ignore NOGO" option should be added to the route planning menu. This option would also be saved with the route. The point is that NOGO will be used mainly where you can not go by car or bike. However, if I plan a hiking trail, I can go through the NOGO areas through the pavement.

Note that the original BRouter nogo system can activate nogos separately for each profile, resp. transportation mode. E.g. all nogos for cars, some for bikes, none for pedestrians.
And yes, they are considered globally, so not limited to a particular route.

Offline LocusUser#1

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #169 on: October 02, 2017, 20:09:27 »
Last Beta, new "Modify track" editor

1. The tool button (in the red circle) has no function.

2. For what we need the function jump to the gps position (in the green circle). For me the function is superfluous.

 

Offline lor74cas

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #170 on: October 02, 2017, 20:13:22 »
Perceptions of using NOGO points.
1) The "ignore NOGO" option should be added to the route planning menu. This option would also be saved with the route. The point is that NOGO will be used mainly where you can not go by car or bike. However, if I plan a hiking trail, I can go through the NOGO areas through the pavement.

Note that the original BRouter nogo system can activate nogos separately for each profile, resp. transportation mode. E.g. all nogos for cars, some for bikes, none for pedestrians.
And yes, they are considered globally, so not limited to a particular route.
IMHO when I use the clear route button if I have a pop up to choose to: clear all nogo/profile nogo/current visible nogo points or something similar should be helpful.
I used the nogo points to avoid some sections of a track for a hike but next time  I do not want the nogo still there and to give them all an expieration of a week is tedious.


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Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #171 on: October 02, 2017, 21:16:46 »
IMHO when I use the clear route button if I have a pop up to choose to: clear all nogo/profile nogo/current visible nogo points or something similar should be helpful.
I used the nogo points to avoid some sections of a track for a hike but next time  I do not want the nogo still there and to give them all an expieration of a week is tedious.

I do not agree with Arndt - the BRouter author - on nogo usage philosophy. IMHO, nogo points should serve as really nogo points, permanent(e.g. really bad road or always traffic jams or whatever) or temporary ( e.g. road fixing).  They should not be used as "negative viapoints/shapepoints".

Offline lor74cas

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #172 on: October 02, 2017, 22:25:08 »
IMHO when I use the clear route button if I have a pop up to choose to: clear all nogo/profile nogo/current visible nogo points or something similar should be helpful.
I used the nogo points to avoid some sections of a track for a hike but next time  I do not want the nogo still there and to give them all an expieration of a week is tedious.

I do not agree with Arndt - the BRouter author - on nogo usage philosophy. IMHO, nogo points should serve as really nogo points, permanent(e.g. really bad road or always traffic jams or whatever) or temporary ( e.g. road fixing).  They should not be used as "negative viapoints/shapepoints".
Sometimes I'm so lazy that I prefer to give just two points, start and end, so I use nogo to block the route on unwanted trails.
I don't know what is the main purpose of nogo points, this is the use sometimes I made of them. So if we can use nogo also in this way why don't give them a more user friendly menu to clear them after use?

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Offline john_percy

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #173 on: October 02, 2017, 22:41:52 »
If there is more than one way to use no-gos, surely we need options to use them in those different ways.
I should not design an app so that everyone has to do it my way!

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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #174 on: October 02, 2017, 23:30:14 »
Shaping Point(s) into exported gpx ?
As ONLY Locus must recognise/reconstruct.
Shaping Point indicator in trkpt attribute <type>
<trkpt lat="51.0529732704163" lon="3.99975299835205">
<type>Shape</type>
</trkpt>
+1 = would allow round trip GPX export/ import of route plan
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2017, 23:33:53 »
They should not be used as "negative viapoints/shapepoints".
I sometimes find nogo's very convenient for negative viapoints/shapepoints. Sometimes it is the fastest method for shaping my route.
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Offline Menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #176 on: October 03, 2017, 08:47:01 »
@lor74cas:
 ah understand, thanks. Internal Locus profiles are made @pountikl but are already quite old. Seems I'll have to update it.

@LocusUser#1:
1) just yesterday morning I've removed it ;)
2) good point, I'll think about it and probably remove as well, thanks

Nogo usage:
- here comes good question that will define UX around nogos. What is a main purpose of these areas? I was always working on it with single idea in mind: define area, where is any problem so I wants to avoid it. Exactly as wrote Libor here .
I never thought about them as about tool that should "shape" an planner route. And to be true, I still see no reason for this. Because I expect that planner will mostly me used really for planning, one or two clicks more for additional shaping points, does not look like a problem.

So for now:
  • nogo's are separate function with global impact, so they are used in route planner and also in navigation/recalculation etc.
  • no UI with list of nogo areas and it's easier manipulation is planned
  • no option to set impact on hike/bike/car is currently planned

Feel free to discuss about them, but it is not a priority for me for now and I'm personally still not sure how to deal with this feature, so consider current state as some "Alpha version", thanks for understanding.
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #177 on: October 03, 2017, 11:13:30 »
I never thought about them as about tool that should "shape" an planner route. And to be true, I still see no reason for this.
Often BRouter needs no encouragement but sometimes I encourage the chosen route with a Shaping point, sometimes with a NOGO area. Each has it's use and advantage depending on the characteristics of the current route. Generally for me a NOGO is only needed for the life of the route. No longer. As my cycle touring is always to a new area.
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Offline Menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #178 on: October 03, 2017, 11:15:31 »
In this case, permanent nogo areas also cause no problems to you, right? And with some default validity value set to for example 14 days since create, it solve also automatic clear of old areas, hmm?  ;)
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.25.+ ( 9. 8. 2017 )
« Reply #179 on: October 03, 2017, 11:25:13 »
No problems for me; either way. I only reply to your comment "I see no reason..." with my reason :)

Just a general comment:- Until now I have used the "external BRouter" method of route planning - http://docs.locusmap.eu/doku.php?id=manual:user_guide:tracks:planning:brouter. I can quickly generate X routes for X profiles, then compare & contrast. But now, finally, the new Route Planner has overtaken this method for convenience. With Shaping points & NOGO areas it just gets better & better.
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