Author Topic: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)  (Read 86589 times)

Offline gynta

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #165 on: August 11, 2016, 19:18:07 »
btw. thank you for bring back the (right) green GPS Satfix icon...

Offline balloni55

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #166 on: August 11, 2016, 19:29:05 »
Thanks for possibility to disable left REC-button :)

- no map preview in data track tab

brouter profiles:
- allways long list of available"profiles". I think only meaningfull profiles should be available for selection, or what is the realistic use of  e.g "CAR-SHORT > Walking"  or  "FOOT > Car ECO"
- Where can user find abbreviation of e.g. SAC4 or FCR
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 19:41:43 by balloni55 »
Locus PRO 3.46.1
 

Offline menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #167 on: August 11, 2016, 20:32:43 »
@gynta: heh you mean as default content in panels? Well, we realized that it is quite complicated to solve tasks like "check if Locus has GPS fix" :)

@balloni: list of profiles is based on Libor work here: https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles . He will help me to choose best of them, that will be included in Locus by default. For now, it is only for testing. And what means FCR? I have no idea :).

And "realistic use" ... well I know that some people set all five options to hike/bike profiles. So question here is, if not to allow rename and re-icon these profiles. Maybe I'll go easier way and offer only few relevant profiles for every type, as you suggest. Thanks for opinion.

And no map preview ... indeed, thanks!
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Offline abrensch

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #168 on: August 11, 2016, 22:46:52 »
... first attempt to custom configuration for BRouter profiles directly over Locus.
Locus will now display also profiles stored in Locus/data/brouter (for those who wants to play with it). Such profiles also support "on the fly" definition of "avoid_motorways" and "avoid_toll" parameters. Check sample attached file if interested. Hope you find it useful.

Thanks, and works for me as intended.

However, I think that needs a second thought.

The issue was that the transport-mode mapping in BRouter is too abstract for the average user, and you need something more intuitive. And now you come up with ....... a transport mode mapping....

So everytime the word "transport mode" comes to your mind, just say 3 times:

  "There's nothing like a transport mode - there are just profiles with options"

  "There's nothing like a transport mode - there are just profiles with options"

  "There's nothing like a transport mode - there are just profiles with options"

I know that for MapQuest you have a similar concept: the options (there are 4 options for MapQuest) are configured deep in the configuration, and the transport mode is selected on the navigation screen. This is already dangerous: it's easy to forget such an option, and you will be confused by unexptected results.

But now, things are even worse: while for Mapquest, you have one set of options, now you have a set of options for each transort mode. That's a multiplication of entropy and the way to hell.

So the concept that I have in mind is much simpler: put the profile-selection AND the options directly on the navigation screen.Maybe two lines, the first with a combobox for profile selection + a trigger button, and the second line with checkbox icons for the options. And have the values for the checkboxes shared over profiles, that is, if you change the profile selection, the options keep their values, but the visibilty of the option icons depends on whether the selected profile evaluates that option. Of course that does not offer space for the (multi-language?) option descriptons, so they must be places somewhere else.

I am aware that you need a transport mode also to initialize the voice navigation. But you can take that from the gpx-response, the same way you do it when importing a gpx.

regards, Arndt
 

Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #169 on: August 12, 2016, 01:57:46 »
I agree with Arndt regards new BRouter customization.
Thanks for ability to hide the left track recording button.
Thanks for 2 new track styles and more empty space between icons in other styles. The spacing looks really good now - can see underlying road better.
 

Offline menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #170 on: August 12, 2016, 07:46:02 »
Hello @abrensch, thanks for a nice feedback.

I perfectly understand your point of view. More I think about it, more I agree that current system just "duplicates" settings for BRouter. On seconds side, life is not so easy.

I can imagine how you see it ... similar to what you have on web page, but
- quite weird to have some routing service done in this way, some in different, so it will require to recreate MapQuest and other to look and work same
- I read about no single problem till now, that car-fast, car-slow ... etc. cause problems to anybody. So this system as is, is usable and logical for users. What comes now is a complication - "profiles". You care about "average users". I care currently more about less then average users. They don't care about profiles. I expect, they will use all settings as is, no need to modify it.
- anyway good point is with extra parameters. As I think about it, agree they should be shared and agree they needs to be visible easily directly during creating navigation definition (start/stop). I have something in my mind, so give me one more chance ;).

@Andrew Heard: you are welcome!
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #171 on: August 12, 2016, 07:59:41 »
brouter profiles:
- allways long list of available"profiles". I think only meaningfull profiles should be available for selection, or what is the realistic use of  e.g "CAR-SHORT > Walking"  or  "FOOT > Car ECO"
- Where can user find abbreviation of e.g. SAC4 or FCR

@balloni55: Well, my work on script based generation of profiles (  I have found manual creation of profiles boring ) got ahead of the documentation. There was planned to add during the generation the short legend inside the profile header comment and to create a profile legend list file. Also the Github documentation of the new profiles versions.

At that moment Menion "has caught me off-guard" with this profile initiative, before the documentation was ready.  :)

All profiles for given way of transport come from a signle template, so using Locus options can significantly decrease their number. It could make sense to put them to car/bike/foot subfolders...

4 in SAC4 means maximum allowed value of OSM SAC_Scale , what is rating of alpine hiking difficulty of the trail.

FCR stands for Follow Cycle Routes, an analogy to ICR name.
FCR is a functional analogy to the flag stick_to_cycleroutes in the standard reference Trekking.brf, but works differently.

For more, see my Github pages or wait for later provided more elaborated comments.

@Menion: For car profiles, I would recommend added parameter %drivestyle%, modifying it to Fast / FastEco / Eco variants.

Eco is too focused on cost of fuel consuption at steady speed, but drivers would not be usually willing to drive so slow
( Driving distubations influence on time/cost are considered in Fast/Eco profiles as well. )

FastEco is a kind of balancing of speed and cost criteria.

My recommendations for bicycle and hiking profiles will come later. While all comes from the single template, it must be well thought, what to address by %parameter% and what rather by independent profile.

For bicycle, the most often tweaked is iswet, MTB_factor and smallpaved_factor.

https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/MTB_factor-and-smallpaved_factor

Boolean iswet try to guess shifting of preferences in wet weather, avoiding muddy/slicky roads.
MTB_factor and smallpaved_factor are numeric factors with default values 0.0, used for the single place tweaking of road preferences of profiles.   More on Github or later.


                 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 08:21:37 by poutnikl »
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
When a user digs profiles up from the GitHub repositories,
they will be hopefully wrapped in some wiki knowledge....  :-)
Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile
 

Offline john_percy

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #172 on: August 12, 2016, 11:36:43 »
Locus will now display also [BRouter] profiles stored in Locus/data/brouter (for those who wants to play with it
They must be somewhere but I can't find them in that location on my system
 

Offline gynta

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #173 on: August 12, 2016, 11:49:12 »
Locus will now display also [BRouter] profiles stored in Locus/data/brouter (for those who wants to play with it
They must be somewhere but I can't find them in that location on my system



edit
...and you are right.
Locus/data/brouter is somewhere :)
Menion?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 12:07:30 by gynta »
 

Offline LocusUser#1

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #174 on: August 12, 2016, 13:15:10 »
Beta 3.18.6.2
New Item screen: the arrow in the top left corner will not jump back into the list, I always land directly on the map screen, so I can not get to the list.

New Item screen: No items in the folder "GPSies" are displayed.
 

Offline menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #175 on: August 12, 2016, 14:27:15 »
@poutnikl: thanks for feedback. Yep, it was quick action, but it's a beta and I think it's better to give you something to play with, then speed week on something, we later consider as useless.

I wanted to set just most used basic "boolean" parameters into optional parameters (like I did with motorways and tolls). More complicated parameters should be handled directly by routing profiles (separate files). Anyway it's on discussion. I think that for most of basic users, one or in worst case, two profiles for every type should be enough. Advanced users may use own profiles loaded in mentioned Locus/data/brouter directory (also possible to prepare pack with profiles to Store).

Btw. this directory is not created automatically. Just create it manually.

@LocusUser#1 and others ... what you expect to happen when you press "left arrow icon" in top left corner of screen? Forget on Locus now, it's a general question. As I read by Google suggestions, this button may move you one step back in activity lists, not just one step back like with "back button".
At start, in new "Items" screen this arrow has same system as hardware "back" button. But soon I realized that everytime I wants to return to map, I have to tap back many times and after return I have to again move to correct folder. This top arrow solve it and it's one tap to map and one tap to exactly same place where I was before.

Btw. I'm going to publish one more Beta now with completely redesigned configuration screen for BRouter and based on @arndt suggestion (and small inspiration from Google Maps), I made a compromise that I'll test next four days (out of office).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 15:10:27 by menion »
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Offline abrensch

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #176 on: August 12, 2016, 14:31:51 »
- I read about no single problem till now, that car-fast, car-slow ... etc. cause problems to anybody.

I can help you remember :-)

http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=5066.msg42633#msg42633

Quote
So this system as is, is usable and logical for users.

The system, as it is used, is not logical. In my mapping I mapped "moped" -> "car slow". A moped is not a car, so this is not logical, it's just a workaround. When zossebart maps 5 biking-profiles on the 5 transport modes and has a hard time to remember what "car slow" actually is, then there's also a usability problem.


Quote
What comes now is a complication - "profiles". You care about "average users". I care currently more about less then average users. They don't care about profiles. I expect, they will use all settings as is, no need to modify it.

I do not agree. The complication is the fact that there are two "namespaces" with a mapping between them. If there's only one namespace, whether you call it a mode or a profile is just wording. A user seeing a combobox with items like "car" "moped" "roadbike" "velomobil" "bike" "hike" will be less confused than a user that has to learn that a moped is a slow car.

Quote
- anyway good point is with extra parameters. As I think about it, agree they should be shared and agree they needs to be visible easily directly during creating navigation definition (start/stop).

Think about consistency. As poutnik pointed out, it's quite arbitrary where you put the "cut" between having distinct profiles or controlling behavior via parameters (and in current beta there are far too many profiles, because most differnces would be better implemented by parameters).

There's no good reason to treat these two ways of configuring the router on different levels of visibility/reachability. So if I convinced you to put the parameters directly on the Navigation Screen, I will also convice you to put the profile name there. Then you have a layout problem because of the extra space that needs, and convice yourself that you need to remove the transport mode buttons :-)
 
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Offline Christian

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #177 on: August 12, 2016, 14:51:46 »
I'm very happy about the implementation of more BRouter profiles and even parameters.
This is for me beside guidance the most important functional module in Locus and sure also for other users and may make difference to other apps.
But i would like to ask all responsible and involved persons to create a functional design together before a new beta is released. This may avoid this kind of mailing list here in forum (see above).
Thank you. Looking forward to use this new feature.
And... i totally agree with the opinion of abrensch about users and parameters.
 

Offline menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #178 on: August 12, 2016, 15:04:33 »
By "I read no ...", I was talking about using basic simple separation to "car fast", "car slow" etc. used in MapQuest and other services. Not about BRouter.

If we will talk about BRouter and it's usage in Locus as is now, then of course, system is not best in case you wants to change profiles and use different options.

Anyway I'm not saying that what you wrote does not make sense to me, it does. I just now can't imagine to create completely different UI for all routing engines, because of this. And have some special UI because of BRouter that will be quite different ... hmm ... have to think more about it ...

EDIT: and mailing list/discussion ... well, this is a one of main purposes of this forum I think :).
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Offline john_percy

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #179 on: August 12, 2016, 15:29:45 »
Back arrow button and new Items screen
I follow what you say @menion, but I was flummoxed as how to get back to the Items screen when I had drilled down to a collection of pois.
Back arrow returns straight to the map.

(Answer after a lot of trying is to get the title bar and system buttons to appear, then click system button "back". )
Not intuitive.