Messages

Hallo

Ja, ich meine eine neue Route erstellen, die dann auf der Karte einfach dem eingeblendeten GPX Pfad folgt.
Dabei hab ich festgestellt, dass nur MapQuest leidliche bis zufriedenstellende Ergebnisse liefert.
Zu den Locus internen ist zu sagen:
MapQuest: Bis zu was Besserem tauglich
Yours: Erkennt viele kleine Wege nicht, obwohl offensichtlich in den OSM Daten vorhanden, MapQuest kennt sie auch.
OSRM: hat nur Autonavigation und macht im Wald garnichts
BRouter: erzeugt keine Abbiegehinweise, noch nicht.
Graphhopper: Kennt kleine Wege nicht (wie Yours) und erzeugt nur sporadisch sinnvolle Abbiegehinweise.

Online Service:
GPSies: erzeugt nur Abbiegehinweise wie der Algorithmus in Locus -> untauglich
RideWithGPS: Ja, garnicht schlecht, aber um die Features zu nutzen muss man zahlen, zuviel, Abo.
BikeRouteToaster: ist auch ok, die Bedienung ist *würg*

Ergo: Es gibt im Jahr 2015 keine benutzerfreundliche, auf ordentlichen Karten (openandromaps mit MTB Theme), mit sinnvollen Abbiegehinweisen versehene Routenplanung. Traurig aber war.

Gruß

Hallo Ihr

Ja, die Bearbeitung (Löschen, Hinzufügen) von Abbiegehinweisen ist noch "suboptimal".
Aber hey, das ist schonmal besser als alles andere was es so gibt.
Mein Vorgehen derzeit aus dem Nachbarthread http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4536.msg36264#msg36264 :

Varainte 1: GPX File einlesen, Routenerstellmodus im Locus aktivieren und mit Anweisungen generiert durch MapQuest den Track nachrouten. Neuerdings kann man danach manuell Abbiegehinweise ergänzen oder löschen.
Variante 2: GPX File einlesen, Kopie mit Abbiegehinweisen erzeugen (Problem dabei siehe oben) und dann manuell nachbearbeiten.
Variante 3: TCX Route mit vorhandenen Abbiegehinweisen einlesen und dann ggf. nachbearbeiten.

Gruß

Hallo Ulli

Ein weiterer Radfahrer, sehr schön.
Ich kenne den Algorithmus nicht im Detail, der auf einem GPX Track die Abbiegehinweise erzeugt, aber ich nehme an, dass etwas mehr in die "Berechnung" eingeht als nur der Winkel. Evtl. ist auch die gesamte Richtung des weiterführenden Tracks mit entscheidend. Aber letztlich ist es egal. Mit dem Generator werden die Abbiegehinweise nie perfekt sein. Entweder fehlen welche, oder es sind zu viele, oder an der falschen Stelle.......
Du hast richtig erkannt, dass nur eine kartenbasierte Erstellung ordentliche Ergebnisse liefern würde. Ein Programm, was aus einem einfachen GPX File eine Route mit Abbiegehinweisen mit Kartendaten macht gibt es aber noch nicht.
Mein Kompromiss schaut im Moment so aus:
Varainte 1: GPX File einlesen, Routenerstellmodus im Locus aktivieren und mit Anweisungen generiert durch MapQuest den Track nachrouten. Neuerdings kann man danach manuell Abbiegehinweise ergänzen oder löschen.
Variante 2: GPX File einlesen, Kopie mit Abbiegehinweisen erzeugen (Problem dabei siehe oben) und dann manuell nachbearbeiten.
Variante 3: TCX Route mit vorhandenen Abbiegehinweisen einlesen und dann ggf. nachbearbeiten.

So kommt man zu "sinnvollen" Abbiegehinweisen.

Perfekte Fahrradnavigation auf Waldwegsniveau ist leider noch Zukunftsmusik. Warum das im Jahre 2015 kann ich allerdings nicht nachvollziehen.

Gruß

PS.: Deshalb halte ich ein weiteres Rumdoktern an dem Generator Algorithmus für sinnfrei.

Hello Menion

1. I updated to Beta 3.8. It's not pro any more. By intent?
2. Adding waypoints manually works great now. Blue dots, voice commands. Nice.
3. The option "number of commands"is the setting when Locus creates commands along a track, right? It has nothing to do with the amount of instructions before a turn, right?
4. Did you optimize screen on/off for this version?
5. There is a question left from the 3.7... thread: what is about the "strict" setting in navigation mode. When is it needed and when is it not needed?

Thanks, great progress.

Hello

Thanks 0709

the line "navigation_average_speed_bike=5.0" is already in my config file. No # before.
Should work.
Why not?

Thanks

[any]

Hi All

Menion:
"1) don't use "Strict" more in navigation. Except cases, your tracks has same azimuth, Locus should not switch to incorrect track in navigation mode (like in your sample "8")"

"don't use "Strict" more in navigation". Should it be "don't use "Strict" any more in navigation"?
Because not to use it more makes no sense, does it?
"Except cases, your tracks has same azimuth...", means except for tracks, where parts of the tracks are like in my 8 track, right?
"...Locus should not switch to incorrect track in navigation mode", means Locus will not switch to wrong track part at my 8 track although "strict" is deactivated? Since when? What else was changed?

Language barrier, sorry.
Thanks

PS.: What do I have to do to get Voice/beep instructions in simulation mode like in the videos? In Pro and Beta I  can "simulate" when GPS is off, but I do not get any voice/beep instructions.

Hello 0709

I do not get your point, sorry.
The "problem" with "overlapping" instructions on short L/R combinations is not new and I now this behavior from pro version.
At the moment Locus gives us two instructions before a turn. At bike speed its around 80m and 20m before turn.
If a following turn occurs within the 80m after the first turn, you get the first instruction for the second turn before the first turn. And Menion is right. With long instructions its  "After x metres turn LEFT and then after y metres turn "RIGHT". With short instructions (beeps) its - .. - T .. T             T for turn.
Is that your problem?
If we want to prevent that problem, Menion needs to change the instructions, so no instruction for the second next turn before next turn is finished. Is that your proposal? I would support this for bike (short instructions, beep), not for car.

In the other thread (Navigation generator) we found out, that navigation mode is more suitable for mtb than guiding mode.
We only need strict order for the waypoints. Menion implements that as an option to navigation mode now (thanks again). So we mtb guys will definitly use navigation mode now.

And I testes this "new" bike navigation mode. Here are my findings:
1. Strictly waypoints is really strict ;-). If you don't reach a point, due to unprecise GPS track or bad GPS reception, Locus sticks to the waypoint behind you, although you are going on with the track. In this moments you have to go to next waypoint manually. I see the problem: On the one hand it should be strict, on the other hand intelligent enough to take the next suitable waypoint if you "miss" one. Difficult. Is there a good solution Menion?
2. The modification of screen on/off is not really much better than before. Like I understand Menion, its still "time based". Whenever something goes wrong in timing from first instruction (screen on) to turn, the display is off before the turn. This happens with change of speed and also when you stop before a crossing. Maybe its typical for bike groups, but at 30% of all crossing there is a waiting time before turns. In these cases the screen is off when you want to go on with the track.
Is there a opportunity to make the screen on/off position dependend?
3. I assume the errors (no blue dots, no voice instruction) with manually added instructions will be solved in next versions.

Over all my great thanks to Menion. Its definitely going in the right direction and its fun to test and to help to make it better. I wish I could help you in programming, but I can't.

Bye

Joachim

Hallo Arndt

Danke für deine Antwort.
Ja, ich meinte die voice hints. Hatte das aus dem Kopf verwechselt.

Ich halte Abbiegehinweise generiert aus dem Verlauf einer Route für absoluten Schwachsinn, speziell natürlich im Wald.
Warum benutzt man nicht die Kartendaten? Ist das so schwierig, dass das nur Navigon, TOMTOM usw. können?
Oder sind die OSM Daten so schlecht?

"Im Wald hab' ich da garnicht sosehr ein Problem damit."
Was meinst du damit?

Danke

Gruß

Hallo

Danke, wie befürchtet.

Jetzt hab ich dann noch ein paar frustgetriebene Fragen an die deutschsprachigen Routingexperten:
1. Warum gibt es kein Routing Programm, was auf Waldwegniveau (siehe Screenshot oben) sinnvolle Abbiegehinweise erzeugt?
Sind die OSM Kartendaten auf diesem Niveau einfach zu schlecht? Es ist in die Daten bestimmt nicht soviel "Aufwand" geflossen wie in die Straßendaten für die Autonavigation. Liegt es daran?
2. Zumindest MapQuest ist leidlich in der Lage auch auf Waldwegen richtige Abbiegehinweise zu erzeugen.
Warum gibt es dann kein Programm, dass existierende GPX-Files mit kartendatenabhängigen Abbiegehinweisen versieht?
Von A nach B routen geht. Aber entlang eines Pfades? Das ist doch nur eine Frage des Algorithmus, oder?
Grobes Punkteraster auf Track erzeugen mit via points, Route generieren, Soll-Ist Abweichung zum Pfad ermitteln und ggf. Zwischenpunkte ergänzen. Das kann zwar etwas dauern aber wird doch immer schneller sein als manuelles Nachrouten.

3. Was ist der Unterschied zwischen BRouter und Graphhopper? Graphhopper scheint auf Waldwegsniveau genauso leidlich Abbiegehinweise zu erzeugen wie Mapquest. Kranken MapQuest und Graphhopper an den gleich schlechten OSM Daten?

4. Woher kommen dann in OSMand die Abbiegehinweise wenn man mit BRouter routet?

Danke

Gruß

Hallo Arndt

Ich hab den Beitrag auch angesehen. Interessant.
Ich bin jedoch in der Anwendung von BRouter in Locus etwas verwirrt.
BRouter erstellt doch das Routing inkl. Abbiegehinweisen mit Hilfe der OSM Kartendaten, oder?
Der letzten Folie deines Vortrages ist zu entnehmen, das Turn instructions auf der Todo Liste stehen.
Heißt das, dass BRouter garkeine Anweisungen erzeugt?
Das würde auch Folgendes erklären:

Die sinnlosen Abbiegehinweise lassen eher auf den Locus internen Hinweiserzeuger schließen.
Also der Track kommt von BRouter, die Hinweise von Locus, ist das richtig?

Danke

Gruß

Hi

Thanks.
Voted.

I did a backup of the current apk and it works.
But no touch up to now.
Does anybody knows which local directory ARC is using on the disk for putting maps to?
Dropbox is also not working yet.

Bye

Hello

As Locus is developing to a really good route planning software including the best maps for mountainbiking (openandromaps), I would like to use it under Windows for planning routes with my laptop.
Right now we have to use Bluestacks or something similar to run Locus under windows.
But there is ARC to run android apps in Chrome.
https://developer.chrome.com/apps/getstarted_arc

I tested it with Locus Free APK 2.17.0 because I found this APK on the web very fast.
It seems to work.

It's easier to handle than Bluestacks, its faster with no lags.

Is it possible to test the newest APK?

Thanks

Hello 0709

Sorry for my late response and thanks for your support.
What I really cannot understand is, that every puzzle part for a perfect bike navigation (planning) is out there and nobody puts it together.
1. Map: For a good bike tour planning you need a good map. The absolutely best map for real mountain-biking is openandromaps with MTB theme because there you get coloured tracks depending on difficulty. Together with hillshading its perfect. Which programs are there to plan a route with your windows PC......0, zero, nothing.
Verctorial, RouteConverter and Atlas can display the map but the routing capabilities are ********.
2. Routing Tool with turn instruction feature: GPSies generates instructions along GPX file like Locus, depending on angles of tracks without map data background. Thats ***** but better than nothing. Con.: If you add turn instructions manually they will not be recognized after TCX export because there is no real cuesheet at GPSies.
3. You need a tool where you can load different tracks at the same time and than routing the best of all these tracks with a new track. Which tool can do this? None.
4. Than there is RidewithGPS. Expensive, routing with turn instructions, deleting and adding turns manually, cuesheets. Horrible UI, bad maps.
5. There is BikeRouteToaster: Bad interface, bad maps but adding turn instructions is working well.

So my current setup for planning a route is any GPX file loaded in GPSies, adding turn instructions automatically, than export TCX to bikeroutetoaster, deleting and adding instructions manually, export with TCX to Locus.
HELLO, its 2015.

The solution ist so easy:
Running Locus with BlueStacks on Windows Laptop.
Perfect maps, more than one GPX file displayed on map at once, planning tool with Mapquest, automatic generation of turn instructions and the only fuc**** function that is missing, is manually adding turn instructions.
WHATS SO DIFFUCLT ON THAT MENION!
You have the nearly perfect tool and you don't use it. Horrible.

Bye

PS.: I cannot find the right information. Is there a tweak (de.tts, config.cfg...) to change the "time"/"position" of turn instructions before turn? I would like to have one 50m (or 10sec) before and one directly before the turn

Hallo All

I know that there are several threads about this or similar topics. Here are some of them.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.msg33547#msg33547
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3915.msg29285#msg29285
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4362.msg34093#msg34093
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4079.msg33367#msg33367

I want to give a short summary of the functionalities of Locus and ask some questions.

Scope:
I want to use Locus for navigation on small ways and paths through forests and mountains for mountain-biking. Therefor I want to have turn instructions on crossings combined with voice instructions.

Locus currently gives us four different methods to achieve this goal:
1. So called "Guiding" (Deutsch: Routenführung) based on a GPX file or similar data.
2. So called "Navigation"  (DE: Navigieren) based on a GPX file or similar data.
3. So called  "Navigation" (DE: Navigieren) based on a created route within Locus using feature "Add new route & measure" (deutsch: Route hinzufügen & messen)
4. So called "Navigation" (DE: Navigieren) based on a TCX file, created with GPSIES or RideWithGPS or from elsewhere.

to 1:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus
Settings:
Settings-> Guiding-> "Next point" notification On (DE: "Nächster Punkt" Benachrichtigung) -> Text to speech
Activation:
Click on GPX file on the map -> arrow -> Guide On (DE: Routenführung Ein)
Pros:
- You just need the right settings and a GPX or similar file
Cons:
- This functions "just" interprets the change of angle on the track and generates voice output
- Serpentines leads to right-left-right-left all the time
- If the path/way changes direction you get a command to go right or left
- No turn instructions with arrows on the display
- Locus just follows the GPX file independent from the path/way information from the map data
Questions/opinion:
Useless for mountain-biking because you get a lot of unnecessary turn instructions and when you really have to change the way from one to another, and it is not a real crossing with a certain angle, you get no turn instruction.

to 2:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
Click on GPX file on the map -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- A more "intelligent" algorithm than in point 1 creates turn instructions along the GPX file
- You just need a GPX or similar file.
- You can choose the number of orders (Low, Medium, High)
- You get turn instructions on the screen
Cons:
- This functions "just" interprets the change of angle on the path and generates voice output
- Serpentines leads to right-left-right-left all the time (but less than 1, depending on number of orders setting)
- If the path changes direction you get a command to go right or left (depending on number of orders setting)
- Locus just follows the GPX file independent from the path/way information from the map data
Questions/opinion:
Useless for mountain-biking because you get a lot of unnecessary turn instructions and when you really have to change the way from one to another and it is not a real crossing with a certain angle you get no turn instruction (depending on number of orders setting, in one case to much, in the other to less).

to 3:
Requirements:
Any GPX or similar file imported in Locus to create a route along the GPX file manually.
Load the GPX to the map. Start  main menu -> more -> "Add new route & measure".
If you activate the turn symbol at the bottom (Compute route), the planned route will follow the exact ways and paths according to the map data. In the "settings" under "navigation" you can choose the "Compute source". You can choose between MapQuest, Yours, OSRM, Brouter (additional setup needed), GraphHopper (Plugin needed). This are all routing services, which uses the real map data to plot the route. Brouter and Graphhopper can be used offline (without Internet connection), the others need internet access.
With this routing services you can now reroute your GPX file and create a real "route" with "real" turn instructions.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
After creating and saving the route, click on the route -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- Route is calculated following the map data.
- You get turn instructions on the screen
- No Serpentines right-left-right-left all the time.
Cons:
- You have to reroute the whole GPX file.
- Sometimes you will also have useless turn instructions or missing ones because the map data is also not perfect, especially with the small paths you will ride with the mounting-bike.
Questions/opinion:
Best for mountain-biking is MapQuest right now.
You can delete useless turn instructions but you cannot add some missing ones. So better than 1 and 2 but not perfect.

to 4:
Requirements:
TCX file with turn instructions imported to Locus.
There are several online planning tools which can create TCX route files with turn instructions.
I tried GPSIES and RideWithGPS.
GPSIES creates turn instructions similar to 1 and 2. Senseless, but you get turn instructions on the screen and you can deleted and add your own instructions. Problem with GPSIES: The manually created turn instructions can be seen on the route after import to Locus but they will not be used be Locus somehow.
RideWithGPS creates turn instructions with GraphHopper (with real map information) like 3 but you can delete and add turn instructions manually. The added ones are integrated in the Cuesheet of the TCX file and were used correctly by Locus.
Settings:
Nothing special.
Activation:
After importing the TCX file click on the route -> arrow -> Navigate (DE: Navigieren)
Pros:
- Route is calculated following the map data.
- You get turn instructions on the screen
- No Serpentines right-left-right-left all the time.
- You can delete and add instructions manually, needed because GraphHopper and the map data are not perfect.
- Route planning on the big screen of your PC.
Cons:
- You have to reroute your route. I do not know how to underlay a GPX file in GPSIES or RWGPS right now.
- The maps you can use in the online tools are not perfect compared to the openandromap with MTB theme in Locus.
Questions/opinion:
Best for mountain-biking right now. It uses the real map data (RWGPS), you can delete useless turn instructions and you can add some missings ones.

Over all questions:
- Which other programs can create TCX Files? BaseCamp?
- Which routing program can use the openandromaps with mtb theme?
- When will Locus be able to add turn instructions manually?
- Its 2015! What is the problem about creating a route with turn instructions based on map data based on a GPX file automatically?  What are all the software developers doing all the day ;-)?
- Who made the same experience with TCX from GPSIES and manually added instructions? Why aren't they used by Locus?
- Why isn't it possible, that we can get slight right/left from TCX files? Is it a limitation of Garmin, TCX file or Locus?
- I do not get a voice instruction right before the turn. The last one is several meters (50-70) before. Can I change this somehow?

Please help me and write your experiences here. If I make a mistake, please inform me.
Also for other ideas and additional information.

Thanks

Hi All

I'm playing around a little bit with GH. Not bad I think.
Sometimes Iit lags similar to MapQuest when you create a route within Locus step by step, that you get an error despite the path to follow is simple to find. I think some nodes in the map data are not correct and so GH and MapQuest and others cannot route.

What is about my wishes 1 to 3 from that thread?
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3318.msg28908#msg28908

Especially point 3: It is possible to reroute an existing GPX track with GH?

Thanks