One of the major problems with maps are caused by really really old system how the app works with map files, online maps, the system for rendering map tiles etc. I decided to update this system to try to solve most of the major problems.
Main info: to test changes is needed special
ALPHA version.
Currently not yet published, plan is on start of March. Subscribe to receive new information once ALPHA is ready for the test.
Current major visible changesImplemented
- automatic scaling of all raster maps based on device DPI
- support for custom HDPI online maps, more info (https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/how-to-define-custom-hdpi-online-map)
In progress/preparation
- features related to MapsForge V4 maps, more info (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6434.0)
Hi guys,
one month delay ... not too bad I believe.
So who is brave enough to try the new special Alpha version? :)
How to:
Download 3.37.2.4 Map-alpha: https://asamm.myqnapcloud.com/share.cgi?ssid=04Wcqtt
Download 3.37.2.6 Map-alpha: https://asamm.myqnapcloud.com/share.cgi?ssid=0H4qEQX
Download 3.37.2.7 Map-alpha: https://asamm.myqnapcloud.com/share.cgi?ssid=0qcpBbS
Version is based on 3.37.2 + latest fixes + months of work on new "map core".
What to test:
Best: use as you usually do with the regular version.
I mainly try to achieve:
- better support for MapsForge V4 maps
- the good old Map manager that looks exactly the same as in current public version (it use different map system on background)
- improved suggested maps in "Quick map switch"
- better display of raster maps on devices with higher DPI
- correct work of overlays
Nice work. The map scaling is working.
I have done some quick map and theme versions checks.
Map v3: ok
Map v4: ok incl. multilanguage, ? symbol in the menu.
Map v5: ok incl. multilanguage, ? symbol in the menu.
Theme Locus: ok, but only for map v3
Theme v1: ok
Theme v4: ok, but only for map v4 or v5
Theme v5: not selectable
Are these restriction still needed?
I have seen some symbols and text on the map which are not coming from the actual selected theme. Not all elements are cleared during a theme change.
Quote from: SwissPoPo on April 06, 2019, 14:47:28
Map v4: ok incl. multilanguage, ? symbol in the menu.
Just to confirm the ? symbol.
I'm not too expert in maps to give you the required help.
Just tested a v4 map with elevate 4 theme on my old phone.
@SwissPopo
you are fast, thanks!
Yes, there are still some missing icons, will improve it next days.
Themes:
1. Internal themes have no sense to select for other maps then LoMaps I believe, so they do not appear for V4, V5 maps. Petr plan to also convert LoMaps & it's themes to V4, but not sure if there will be enough time this year.
2. V4 theme for V3 maps? I'm no expert, but does it make sense?
3. V5 theme, hmm thanks, have to test it.
I did not notice some artifacts on the maps during theme switching. Between which themes you switched so I may simulate it?
@lor74cas
there is no need to be an expert, really. For me, best is to know, that app works as expected. In this version are also completely new versions of special libraries so it definitely needs some "basic usage" tests to validate it does not crash.
Thanks, looks good at first glance, but no real test.
Quote from: menion on April 06, 2019, 15:27:28
2. V4 theme for V3 maps? I'm no expert, but does it make sense?
That's the confusing thing with mapsforge: there are three version numbers (program, map and theme), but the only important one for compatibility is the program version, as it determines which highest map or theme version it supports. Until now there is a very good backward compatibility, so mixing theme and map version is no issue. The version numbers of themes is not connected to the one of maps at all, they where introduced at different points of time (e.g. Rendertheme V4 was end of 2014, Maps V4 end of 2015). As long as there are apps that only support V3 maps, it makes sense to have them on your device if you use several apps. But you can still have the (huge) advantage of V4 themes with them.
Hi Menion, you bet I am trying.
Downloaded Hessen_ML.map from OAM, which is MF V4.
Locus is able to show the information of this map, but refused to open.
Then I tried an online map, followed by Hessen_ML again - now it did open.
But I have to run now, will try stuff later.
Cheers and have a great weekend!
Michael
PS: just noticed, that on my mother's A5 the % zoom is 72% - looks like automatic adaption according to dpi.
contour lines not present on a map v4 elevate theme 4 but the shadows are correctly represented
Quote from: lor74cas on April 06, 2019, 17:06:08
contour lines not present on a map v4 elevate theme 4 but the shadows are correctly represented
Are you using city mapstyle? Check if contour lines are set.
Some observations:
- when using mapstyle menu and I'm changing mapstyle with Elevate and don't press the arrow top left/back button, but only touch the map, the mapstyle changes aren't applied (as it was before).
- probably known: zoom level/magnificaction can't be switched on when touching the map scale
- Edit: very much improved rendering of mapsforge maps at higher ppis, thanks to larger tile sizes; theme renders pretty much as intended, although not the same scale as in Cruiser or OruxMaps
Quote from: Tobias on April 06, 2019, 17:15:40
Quote from: lor74cas on April 06, 2019, 17:06:08
contour lines not present on a map v4 elevate theme 4 but the shadows are correctly represented
Are you using city mapstyle? Check if contour lines are set.
Some observations:
- when using mapstyle menu and I'm changing mapstyle with Elevate and don't press the arrow top left/back button, but only touch the map, the mapstyle changes aren't applied (as it was before).
- probably known: zoom level/magnificaction can't be switched on when touching the map scale
- Edit: very much improved rendering of mapsforge maps at higher ppis, thanks to larger tile sizes; theme renders pretty much as intended, although not the same scale as in Cruiser or OruxMaps
No way, Elevate Hiking or City, flagged and unflagged contour lines no results.
I also used your suggested procedure using top left back button.
It's the same with elements theme.
I tried to switch from italian to english language to test if it was something related to, but nothing
Quote from: lor74cas on April 06, 2019, 17:51:58
No way, Elevate Hiking or City, flagged and unflagged contour lines no results.
I also used your suggested procedure using top left back button.
It's the same with elements theme.
I tried to switch from italian to english language to test if it was something related to, but nothing
Are you using an OpenAndroMap V4?
It may be resolution-related. For me, items including contour lines only appear in MF V4 maps at (apparently) higher zoom levels than expected. I think that this is supposed to be to do with making the display resolution-independent but I don't understand it or like it.
Also, I get each map appearing twice in Smart Choice Maps.
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- Switching between Tasmania LoMap & OpenAndoMap maps; once crashed but not since. Can't reproduce yet.
- contours look good to me (in appropriate themes)
- shading is not working at all
- on tablet in portrait & landscape modes the left side theme panel/settings are not fully displayed - see attached - these screen caps are not truncated - this is what I see on the left side
- I'm not a map power user, but otherwise looks good to me so far
Quote from: Tobias on April 06, 2019, 19:32:00
Quote from: lor74cas on April 06, 2019, 17:51:58
No way, Elevate Hiking or City, flagged and unflagged contour lines no results.
I also used your suggested procedure using top left back button.
It's the same with elements theme.
I tried to switch from italian to english language to test if it was something related to, but nothing
Are you using an OpenAndroMap V4?
http://download.mapsforge.org/maps/v4/
Italy.map
And
Slovenja.map
Inviato dal mio SM-A520F utilizzando Tapatalk
Quote from: john_percy on April 06, 2019, 20:00:35
It may be resolution-related. For me, items including contour lines only appear in MF V4 maps at (apparently) higher zoom levels than expected. I think that this is supposed to be to do with making the display resolution-independent but I don't understand it or like it.
Also, I get each map appearing twice in Smart Choice Maps.
Sent from my moto g(6) plus using Tapatalk
In my case Italy appears one time but Slovenia twice
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Quote from: lor74cas on April 07, 2019, 07:57:15
Quote from: Tobias on April 06, 2019, 19:32:00
Are you using an OpenAndroMap V4?
http://download.mapsforge.org/maps/v4/
Italy.map
And
Slovenja.map
Those maps don't contain contour lines. Only OpenAndroMaps contain all the data Elevate needs to work properly.
Hi Menion, as you might expect, I had a look at the world map feature. Here are some findings - I suppose (and understand) the topic could not have priority so far:
- The raster maps (ZL 1 to 10 in selected map) are only used up to ZL 8, which gives a terrible performance for ZL 9 and 10.
- The ZL indicator at the top stays at "9", regardless of any zooming out.
- The raster maps are displayed too big, in absolute terms, and in relation to the higher ZL vector maps.
- Switching between LoMpas and OAM (V4, Elevate), the ZL indicator shows a difference of 2.
My 2c findings so far.
TXs and cheers
Michael
The reason maps are showing twice is that locus is recognising folders by two aliases. See screenshot. The location sdcard is the same as storage/emulated/0 in my system.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/09093d901aac622b468e3078facf1605.jpg)
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When I switch my theme to OutdoorHD with LoMap an error occurs.
When I turn my tablet in this dialog from landscape to portrait Locus crashes complet.
Quite a lot of feedbacks, thanks!
Thanks @Tobias for explanation regards themes.
Oki, so in the next version
For V3 maps, the app will offer all possible themes.
For V4+ maps, the app will offer all themes except V3 with "locus-extended". Such themes are optimized for modifier V3 renderer, that is not used for V4+ maps. Oki?
I've also added support for V5 and generally any future themes.
@michaelbechtold
please watch problems with selecting & crash and in case there will be any, screenshot or steps to simulate will be useful. And yes, the new system completely adapts all raster and vector maps to device DPI. There is still settings in the app to rescale maps, but it should not be generally needed now.
Master of the world map :). I'll look on mentioned two problems with the world map, thanks. You wrote about too big raster maps: hard to say if there is or isn't a problem. Important is to check if raster map has a scale for zoom level you try to display or if the app just had to rescale this raster map. The indicator at the top should display real used map zoom together with scale for this zoom.
The difference in the displayed scale for LoMaps & OAM maps is probably correct. As I wrote, these numbers no longer display some computed zoom & scale value as before, but now it displays real zoom and scale of the selected map used to draw a map. LoMaps use V3 renderer that rescales content different than new V4 renderer, so LoMaps will draw more details sooner, but it needs specially prepared themes. V4 does not need so special themes to correctly draw on various DPI phones. Uff, long topic ... I may write about it later a little more if there will be interest.
@Tobias
"apply theme when click on map", fixed
"zoom level/magnificaction can't be switched on when touching the map scale" - may you describe it little?
"scale of V4 maps" - not same, hmm it's possible, but the difference should be really small
@john_percy
interesting with "double folders". Do you have default map directory in settings > misc > Default directories left on default values?
Anyway, I've wrapped function that search for possible directories into one more function that may guarantee that found directories and unique. So in next version, let me know if it works, thanks.
@Andrew Heard
- shading is not working? Please, double check it's settings because I see no problem here.
- interesting with the side panel, I'll check it thanks
@jonny.blue
problem with Germany Mid ML & Outdoor HD ... wrong theme & map combination. I may check and display some better message for this, anyway because I enabled almost unlimited combinations of maps & themes, this is result when not used correctly.
I'll look at mentioned crash, thanks.
Quote from: menion on April 06, 2019, 15:27:28
2. V4 theme for V3 maps? I'm no expert, but does it make sense?
Yes. Tobias has already explained that theme and map version do not relate to each other. So, nothing to add.
Quote from: menion on April 06, 2019, 15:27:28
I did not notice some artifacts on the maps during theme switching. Between which themes you switched so I may simulate it?
I have used a Freizeitkarte v1 and v4 theme (they have a different symbol set). But they are both outdated and no longer available (v5 is). So, I've searched another way to test it.
Any v4 map (e.g. mapsforge). Themes Internal and Elevate. Search a graveyard with name tag.
The internal theme is using a blue sans serif font.
The elevate theme is using a brown italic serif font.
The font style is not coming from the selected theme in every zoom level.
Quote from: menion on April 07, 2019, 15:00:18
"zoom level/magnificaction can't be switched on when touching the map scale" - may you describe it little?
In the map view the map scale (e.g. 200 m) in the lower left corner can't be switched to show the zoom level/magnification in brackets by touching it (V4 OAM) any more.
Quote"scale of V4 maps" - not same, hmm it's possible, but the difference should be really small
My mistake, as I didn't have the magnification in the map scale, I didn't realize that the map was slightly zoomed. Now I switched the top bar to show map info, and with 100% in all apps the view is the same - perfect!
I don't fully agree with Tobias and really don't understand the zooming idea.
For example, when I change from LoMap (or OAM V3) ZL 20 @ 75% to OAM Mapsforge V4 the zoom changes to ZL 18 @ 100% with the map showing the same area. That obviously seriously affects what items are displayed at what map size. Will I need to change all the zoom-min settings in the V4 theme or what?
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Quote from: john_percy on April 07, 2019, 19:18:48
I don't fully agree with Tobias and really don't understand the zooming idea.
For example, when I change from LoMap (or OAM V3) ZL 20 @ 75% to OAM Mapsforge V4 the zoom changes to ZL 18 @ 100% with the map showing the same area.
I meant that the rendering is finally how it's meant to be for mapsforge maps, so no rendering differences anymore for the major apps. I think it depends on user preferences if switching maps should show the same area or the same zoom level (although most without deeper understanding will prefer probably the former).
Quote from: john_percy on April 07, 2019, 19:18:48
That obviously seriously affects what items are displayed at what map size. Will I need to change all the zoom-min settings in the V4 theme or what?
Until now with fixed tile size in order to have the map look the same on any device one would need a different theme for every major ppi step. You adjusted your theme to look fine with the ppi of your device, but it looked different on one with a different ppi screen.
You may have to adjust the V4 theme now, but it will look alright and show the same things in the same area no matter if you use it on a 160ppi tablet or 480ppi smartphone.
PS - @John: I also had my issues with this when it was introduced in standard mapsforge, but after a while I realized this is a pretty genius idea. Once set it works flawless.
Just wanted to try some geocaching functions with staging server ... but I always receive an error:
Hoppla ... Unauthorisized. Code 401.
But I found no way to authorisize ....
Geocaching addon is working.
@SwissPoPo
weird, I'll try it, thanks.
@Tobias
ah, understand. This was removed. There is no longer scale as was before. Locus Map rendering system now use own "camera view" that define what displays on the screen. And all visible maps try it's best to adapt to this camera. If you are interested in which zoom level and rescale is used for the currently visible map, change top toolbar to "map" view.
And exactly same maps in Locus and Orux etc, hmm .. I use own method for the compute of the scale, not the one provided by MapsForge so there might really be a small difference, but nothing serious.
@john_percy
as I wrote above to Tobias, imagine "camera" that display something on the screen. When you change the map, the camera remains exactly the same! This has an effect, that all maps you change to, should display exactly the same area with the best available zoom level.
Difference: V4 maps scale automatically by DPI, but its content is not scaling, it's always the same (maybe a little? Not sure if "dpi" units are supported officially by MapsForge). Compare to this, V3 maps does not scale map tiles by DPI, but scale its content!
This means, that on high DPI devices, V3 maps need to display higher zoom then V4 maps, to display the same area.
I believe that the current system makes absolute sense. Users don't care about some zoom X and zoom Y value. They see some area, switch map and now they see exactly the same area : perfect!
So as Tobias later wrote, there should be no need to modify V4 themes for DPI.
@jonny.blue
hmm I see this error as well but call the same function for the second time, I get an offer to login. What function did you tried? When I personally need login, I open geocaching tools and tap on "Load Pocket queries" :).
Hi Menion,
did some test and compiled the result and explanation in this zip file.
To reproduce, the OAM files I used are at hand where you'd expect them in OAM.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v6pulm0mmjj5l8/LocusAlpha-Analysis-1.zip?dl=0
Re. the different views for different MF versions, others are more competent than I to discuss the backgrounds.
From a user point of view, a change of scope when switching maps is disturbing, though.
Maybe some configurable scale factors would help here.
Same with the relation between raster maps and vector maps (tehre was discussion about that weeks ago, I think I remember).
I feel there is quite some trails ahead ...
TXs and cheers
Michael
Quote
@jonny.blue
hmm I see this error as well but call the same function for the second time, I get an offer to login. What function did you tried?
I tried to log a visit, log a TB, upload a note ... and can repeat this without a positive result.
Loading a PQ doesn't work either.
@menion. Understood now. However I think that means that the minimum zoom at which items appear in my themes will need changing for v4 maps. If you are looking at a remote area with few items to display it makes no difference. In a densely populated area it makes a lot of difference.
Quote from: menion on April 07, 2019, 15:00:18
- shading is not working? Please, double check it's settings because I see no problem here.
@menion - double checked - see 2 maps - alpha & pro, both Hike & Bike theme, both same LoMap, both Hill Shading, scale as identical as I can make them. I note other subtle differences between the maps - is that to be expected? For example horizontal & vertical dashes green lines near "Wellington Park" only displayed with Pro.
Quote from: menion on April 07, 2019, 15:00:18
- interesting with the side panel, I'll check it thanks
Of course this at present means I cannot change the theme checkboxes. I saw another "alpha" test user with truncated side panel too; can't remember his name.
I also gave the alpha a try...
Automatic Map switching works for v4-Maps now - nice! However, the map which was switched to is neither displayed in top bar maps display, nor in maps manager. There's always displayed the originally selected map.
Another thing: if I configure a vector map as an overly of another (or the same) vector map, the theme switcher shows a selection of which map's theme to change (nice!), but Locus crashes if I tap either of them.
Overall, great progress! I definitely think it's the right way to go, especially with the dpi-independend maps display!
When I go to the store I get a red toast "Unknown problem 43" and the Store opens normally. If I then try to download a map I get the same red toast and the download aborts.
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@jonny.blue
where I may download "Outdoor HD" theme to test the mentioned problem with LoMaps?
Problem with "staging server": login to normal geocaching server works correctly to you? What about at top of "Geocaching tools" screen, do you see there you avatar with a name and "right arrow" icon that allows to logout? Weird problem, indeed.
@john_percy
right, in case you will want to use your theme optimized for V3 maps, in new V4 maps system, then you may see a difference in how soon certain items appear. To be true, I'm not 100% sure how this affect real usage so best to give it a try and you will see yourself.
Problem 43: will be solved in next version, thanks.
@Andrew Heard
thank for "double check". I'll have to play with it little bit, because for me it works correctly. Anyway one more user confirmed same issue, so there have to be something ...
@zossebart
right, autoloading works this way. First selected map is something like "base map" and all other "autoloaded maps" are just added into some kind of inner container. So you will still see first selected map. Which, as I though about it, is correct ... highlighted and also restored after restart, is still the map you selected.
Two vector maps at once as overlay: do not expect too much from it. If both maps will be V3 or V4, they use same single instance of map theme so cannot choose different themes for them. Anyway I do not get any crash so I'll need a log here, thanks.
And one separate answer for @michaelbechtold
World map was limited to "zoom 8". I've moved this hardcoded limit up to "zoom 10" inclusive.
Zoom level indicator at top panel improved so in case, currently draw map will be this selected "world map" it will correctly reflect this.
Switching between LoMaps and OAM (or other V4 maps) was mentioned earlier in this topic and it's correct behavior.
Raster maps too big: all of them or just your world maps? Because here I agree, but it looks like you optimized your world maps to the good old Locus rendering system, right? As you may see on the screenshot from my Pixel2 device, online maps are quite useless on this device in Pro version and little blurred, but usable in alpha version. Same should happen with your world maps.
If you see them tooo big, maybe you have enabled rescale in settings > maps > Advanced features > Increase map resolution?
@Hillshading
I use only mapfsforge maps, at V4 I also have problems with the hillshading.
1.) Only a hillshading will be displayed if checked in the settings "Online maps", only "LoMaps & other Vector maps" will not work.
2.) When the hillshading is turned on, there are always sections without hillshading.
There is no problem with V3 maps
Ah amazing, this is the key. Only settings that have an effect is "online maps". Other were used incorrectly. Perfect, thanks, fixed!!
And some spaced and incorrect shading: I know about, but I see similar problems from time to time also in public version. Have to invest some more time into this.
Hi Menion,
I just compared same offline SQLITE map (which is a world map, but regardless ...) between Pro and alpha version: same map, world map and overlay disabled, the SQLITE map being the chosen one, no vector map in play..
In Pro you need a 350% map resolution to show the same scope as the alpha version with 100% for same ZL.
Any idea ?
TXs and cheers
Michael
Quote from: Tobias on April 07, 2019, 08:44:41
Quote from: lor74cas on April 07, 2019, 07:57:15
Quote from: Tobias on April 06, 2019, 19:32:00
Are you using an OpenAndroMap V4?
http://download.mapsforge.org/maps/v4/
Italy.map
And
Slovenja.map
Those maps don't contain contour lines. Only OpenAndroMaps contain all the data Elevate needs to work properly.
Thanks now with v4 from OAM I see contour lines.
For me shadows are ok
At wide scale 30km locus crashed
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Getting late ...
The difference is the dpi effect.
But then there needs to be resolution control down to mayve 25% ...
Quote from: menion on April 09, 2019, 13:28:14
thank for "double check". I'll have to play with it little bit, because for me it works correctly. Anyway one more user confirmed same issue, so there have to be something ...
@menion - happy to provide a log or further details if I can help you track it down; it's not possible to alter theme settings at present
@michaelbechtold
350% is possible if you have some really XXXDPI device. Is this a problem? On devices I tested it, text sizes on vector maps and on raster maps are very similar now. This is thanks to the fact, that all raster maps now scale based on DPI, vector maps do this automatically since begin. And this is the point.
Forget on a while on world maps you created and try some basic online maps and you should see the same picture as I posted before. The useless online map in the Pro version and correctly scaled map in this alpha version.
@Andrew Heard
@LocusUser#1 already found reason here (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54811#msg54811), so consider shading fixed.
And my today topic ... problematic spaces in shading, so let's go on it ...
I got that, Menion (maybe a bit late :-) - see my 2nd post.
Still, as a consequence there should be map scaling not from 100% up, but starting with 25% e.g. User have different tastes - and eyes ...
The world maps I can adapt. I have to check other apps behaviour, too. Worst case make two versions.
No big deal.
Oki fine.
When I started work on this, I was at first thinking about an option, where you should set custom scale modifier for every single map separately. But in the end, it does not make to much sense. Ideal solution from my point of view is to unite scale of all! maps to the single same level ... so all maps should look same (we talk mainly about the width of lines and size of texts of course).
Then, everyone may use good old settings in app, to change the scale of all maps globally in case, he has worst eyes or any other reason.
So I generally hope, this system will work, which should really simplify settings in app (no need to specify scale per map) and also highly improve usage of raster maps, that were quite useless these days on high DPI devices.
Hope my explanation is clear :).
I was also assuming a single scale setting (like today); my only point was to not start with 100% (as today), but with 25%.
Quote from: menion on April 09, 2019, 13:28:14
right, autoloading works this way. First selected map is something like "base map" and all other "autoloaded maps" are just added into some kind of inner container. So you will still see first selected map. Which, as I though about it, is correct ... highlighted and also restored after restart, is still the map you selected.
Ok, understand. I just recognized that the behavier is different to the current version.
Quote
Two vector maps at once as overlay: do not expect too much from it. If both maps will be V3 or V4, they use same single instance of map theme so cannot choose different themes for them. Anyway I do not get any crash so I'll need a log here, thanks.
I don't know if this is useful, either...just played around a bit because you wrote nearly all combinations are possible now.
When I did this and wanted to change theme, I got a selection what theme to change (see screenshot). However, in both cases, Locus crashes. Is it intended to have this selection or should it be removed and only offer theme change of base map (as it is in current version)?
I now also tested online raster maps with alpha and it is a huge improvement! Nicely readable now!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190410/36398326c93f360538fadec8661dad0c.jpg)
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I noticed that switching the map language on a V4 map requires a restart of locus to apply the new language. The second time I changed the language, a restart was not enough and I had to clear the cache/perform a second restart.
Quote from: menion on April 09, 2019, 13:28:14
@john_percy
right, in case you will want to use your theme optimized for V3 maps, in new V4 maps system, then you may see a difference in how soon certain items appear. To be true, I'm not 100% sure how this affect real usage so best to give it a try and you will see yourself.
Here is an add-on alpha version of my "Mapsforge Voluntary" theme. Download, extract, and add to an existing Voluntary theme installation to get a "Mapsforge Voluntary alpha" theme for MFv4 maps in Locus Alpha. Zoom-mins and scaling have been tweaked to make its appearance closer to the theme on LoMaps/MFv3 but how well it does this depends on the resolution of your device.
Please let me know if I am on the right lines with this.
Also, Quick Map Switch "Last Used" online map and Map Manager "Last Map" don't update last used maps now. Possibly connected with maps in custom providers file?
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Hi,
New ALPHA version
uff, a long week filled with work on this map system. I believe that all reported problems here should be solved, so give a try to new version (link in the second post (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54753#msg54753)). Thanks all!
My issues so far are resolved.
Maps Manager / Smart Choice / Online / Most Used seems stuck and gives the wrong maps.
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Here may be a small issue in fact, that Locus counts usage of all maps since begin. So some maps were maybe used so frequently, then now that are always first in the list. You may try with clear list if you manually delete Locus/data/config/map_usage_counter.lb file.
Hmm. Deleted that file, restarted phone. Same results, which do not reflect my usage recently or from the start of using Locus. File reappears as 915 bytes with today's date.
Edit: the same file is also shared by Locus Pro, which reads it correctly.
Ah ok, thanks, I'll check it.
Quote
New ALPHA version
Geocaching problems are solved ... 😎
1. Why are there ghosted themes (originally for MF v4 maps, now for MF v3 as well)?
2. MF v4 themes are not optimised for MF v3 maps not do they look the same as on V4 maps - is this to be improved?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190412/e381826ac6c2b4784f4cfee39737362a.jpg)
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Hmm this better discuss with @SwissPopo and mainly @Tobias
It started here: https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54754#msg54754
I'm not an expert in this area. V3 themes should work correctly on V4 maps and also opposite. On the second side, agree that there may be some "optimization" and same themes may look different in V3 and V4 renderers (and this I can't simply change).
When we speak here, I would also vote for not offering V4 themes for V3 maps.
And because V4 maps are now scaling based on device DPI, I would also vote for the old system, so not to offer V3 themes (and older) for V4 (and newer) maps.
If someone will want to offer his theme for V4+ maps without any extra work, he may just update the version in theme definition on own risk. Feedback?
I would agree about not offering V4 themes for V3 maps. The scaling doesn't work. Caption position appears not to be supported, though that could be sorted, I guess. There may be other points but I've not looked closely.
That deals with my point 2. As far as my point 1 is concerned, I don't know what the ghosted themes represent. Are they folder names?
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I also just checked the new version, the rendering of V3 maps with V4 themes is wrong.
What renderer is used for V3 maps with V4+ themes? If it's the forked 0.3 version (locus-extended) it makes not a lot of sense, as at least mapsforge 0.5+ is needed.
I would propose checking the theme version in the xml-file, if it's version="1" and/or locus-extended="1", use the Locus-Fork, if it's version="4" or higher, use the standard engine.
V3 maps always use custom V3 renderer no matter which theme is selected. Change this should be really really complicated, so I would like to stick with this system.
So what I need to know to make (almost) all happy:
- V3 maps always use custom V3 renderer: which themes offer?
- V4 maps always use official latest (currently 0.11.0 version of MF) renderer: which themes offer?
Thanks for patience with me :).
As I wrote above backward compatibilty of the render engine is great, so you can throw any theme or map version at 0.11 (except locus extended), old V1 themes will also be scaled according to dpi etc.
But there's no "forward" compatibilty, so it makes no sense using a render engine 0.3 (locus ext.) with maps higher than V3 and themes higher than V1 (whatever happened to V2 and V3?).
So only the proposal above (using a renderer according to theme version, when V3 maps are used) would work properly.
3.37.2.6: map shading fixed; truncation of LHS of theme settings fixed
tested 3.37.2.6 ...crash in theme chooser with vector overlay map still present, see my screenshot here:
https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54842#msg54842 (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54842#msg54842)
Therefore, my question again: is it intended that you get to chose the theme you want to change (base or overlay map) if a vector map is overlayed with a vector map?
In current pro, you can only change the theme of the base map and no crash happens.
Locus (alpha) shows a GPS track, although I did not activate track tracking.
Is this new? Is it possible to deactivate it?
I dicovered that 3.37.2.6 seems not be able to display WMS maps!? Maybe it's just the map I tried, but current pro displays it just fine (although with very tiny text). Is this to be expected in the Alpha or is it a bug?
Sorry for a delay, quite a lot of other work over week.
So back to the problem with themes. I do not have the best solution. Rewriting the whole system and do it "theme-centric" (renderer selected based on the version of the theme) instead of "map-centric" (renderer selected based on the version of the map) is quite a big change. And because everything slowly moves to use new engine & new themes, it looks to me like a waste of time.
SO new setup of system:
V3 maps: offer V3 (basic + locus-extended) themes
V4+ maps: offer V4+ themes
I belive this won't be a big problem. Users that use LoMaps, usually use internal themes or themes with "locus-extended" system. Users who wants to use OpenAndroMaps, usually use themes for these maps.
@zossebart
hmm two same theme selectors in one view do not make too sense, agree. The crash is weird anyway in the next version will be only one button to select the theme, so hopefully, it will help.
WMS maps: any map for test?
EDIT: wms sample not needed, I see one big problem, thanks!
@flyingman_ch
only a side effect of horizontal GPS filter you have enabled in settings > GPS. This thin line only displays real GPS coordinates received by Locus Map and may be used for comparing with tracks recorded with Track recording. I'll leave it there for a while for testing and remove it later. But do not worry about it, it has no effect on anything.
Quote from: menion on April 19, 2019, 08:19:59
SO new setup of system:
V3 maps: offer V3 (basic + locus-extended) themes
V4+ maps: offer V4+ themes
Isn't that exactly what we have on the current (Pro) release?
Yes, should be. Because I see no other clear suggestion here. Except the suggestion from Tobias here
Quote from: Tobias on April 12, 2019, 21:15:50
So only the proposal above (using a renderer according to theme version, when V3 maps are used) would work properly.
which is too complicated to create (as I wrote before).
Themes optimized for V3 maps does not work correctly in new system when tiles are scaled in new MapsForge renderer and oposite.
There appears to be a 3d perspective view in the new alpha. I don't know how I turned it on, nor how to turn it off.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190419/ba102bdb6727a8ab792c39ca90dd8ff3.jpg)
in test, but not well working.
Simply swipe with two fingers up and down.
Quote from: menion on April 19, 2019, 15:15:53
Yes, should be. Because I see no other clear suggestion here. Except the suggestion from Tobias here
Quote from: Tobias on April 12, 2019, 21:15:50
So only the proposal above (using a renderer according to theme version, when V3 maps are used) would work properly.
which is too complicated to create (as I wrote before).
Themes optimized for V3 maps does not work correctly in new system when tiles are scaled in new MapsForge renderer and oposite.
I'm fine with that, at least there's finally full V4-theme compatibility that is correctly rendered (with V4-maps), this is way more important than full backwards compatibility, which would be just the icing on the cake.
I see it the same.
It may be a little confusing for some users. In the worst case, I add some info message directly into the app. Anyway, standard MF4 system is supported and mainly united across all apps that use this new version of the library, which is perfect for all of you, who create themes etc.
And the new version for tests in the second topic.
Now:
- Only offers v3 themes if LoMaps or MF v3 map is chosen - OK
- Offers v4 themes PLUS "ghost" themes if MF v4 map is chosen - as posted before at https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6471.msg54862#msg54862.
I'm referring to the external themes with the ghosted map icon. They appear to be duplicates in some way.
Hmm Locus Map now displays all! xml files found in "_themes" directory. Are you sure you do not have two XML files with the same name?
Because I see the similar list to you and as I see, I have two "Elevate" and two "Elements" themes in app.
Aha! I have a back up directory that Locus didn't access previously but does now. Solved. Thanks.
Perfect :).
It is now finally possible to have two or more XML files in the same subdirectory and all these files appear for selection. It is then easy to share the same icons for themes without messing the root "_themes" directory as was necessary till now.
Is there going to be a way of programmatically cleaning bits of old themes from the _themes directory? Or will it depend on use of a file manager? I'm thinking of what happens if I change the file structure of the themes I make available.
Hmm, I was thinking some time ago about the option to delete selected theme directly from UI. Anyway, it may be a problem in case of shared images by more themes.
It is doable I believe, it will just take some time (will have to analyze all themes in define and create list of safe icons to delete). So if there will be a bigger interest, I may invest half a day and do this ...
Quote from: menion on April 20, 2019, 00:14:39
Perfect :).
It is now finally possible to have two or more XML files in the same subdirectory and all these files appear for selection. It is then easy to share the same icons for themes without messing the root "_themes" directory as was necessary till now.
That's great to hear, can't wait for the release with all those improvements. Seems like I'll have a one theme file fits all apps solution. Some theme cleaning/deinstallation option is also a good idea.
Though place names are loads better in the new MF v4 renderer, quite a few are still truncated. Can this be improved?
Also, in previous versions, zooming by means of buttons "locked" to 100% scaling, which seemed quite good to me. In this alpha, that is no longer the case. Is this intentional?
Uff, done.
So added clever delete function that should really delete only content, not anymore needed by any other installed theme.
As a bonus, I created a function that validates, that really all necessary resources are available.
Test on your side (after a backup of themes) is of course welcome. If anyone will be interested in improving this "validate" function, let me know. Currently, it only checks resources defined as "file:/" in xml file.
@john_percy
because Locus Map does not use full system offered by MapsForge library, but still try to render map tiles and draw them in own system, I'm worried, this does not have a simple solution.
100% scaling ... hmm, there is no longer anything like "100%" scale as before. Anyway in top toolbar may be still visible, the scale of the current map. So by fingers, app snaps little to this 100 %. Then you may zoom by buttons by predefined step that should be same as one zoom in vector maps.
That scaling thing hurts me a bit, to be honest.
I like very much after adjusting to a specific %, e.g. 70%, then +/- preserves this.
However, dare not to hit 69%, then things start to jump to lower zoom level.
Offering some reasonable %s from a list, like 50%, 75% (or user configurable) would help - in fact extending the "map resolution" below 100% would do the job ...
One more thing, re. Quick Map Switch. Of course the World Map should not populate that list, right ?
So I set their center to the west corner of Antartica - does not help, though.
Any hint ?
Thank you.
Hi Michael,
not sure I perfectly understand what is the problem with scaling.
Are you playing with vector maps? Then manually set scale should be preserved when scaling by hardware buttons.
Anyway, app currently computes real resolution (pixels per meter) for every map zoom and during zooming, it searches for optimal zoom level from the source map, where scale will be as low as possible.
Quick map switch: hmm world map should be there only in case, there are no better alternatives for some smaller local maps. Is this your case? Btw. defined "map center" has no effect here. Only coverage and it's relation to current map center is important.
Hi Menion, I am trying to scale down below 100%, regardless if vector or world map.
But when I "cross" 70%, it jumps down one ZL and goes to 130% roughly.
My objective is to be able to get below 100% in an easy and controllable way.
Re. Quick Map Switch: the world map is in top positions in the list, although there are vector maps nearby.
Would it make sense to exclude active overlay and world maps from the Quick Map Switch list ?
Cheers
Michael
My problem with scaling is that if I have adjusted the zoom with two fingers and end up with a display of, say, 75% of a certain zoom level, the text may be quite difficult to read. Tapping the zoom + button goes to the next zoom level, but still at 75% and leaves the text too small because the MF v4 renderer can't scale text (which the Locus renderer can do).
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Hi John, I just double checked with Hessen_ML from OAM, which is MF 4 that the text scaling is working.
I like a setting with generally 70%, but text scaling of 200%.
Am I talking about the same thing?
Cheers
Michael
No, we're not talking about the same thing. Locus-specific themes have a command scale-text-size which scales the text as the map is zoomed. There is no equivalent command for MF V4. Previously, if the map (and text) was at 75% of a zoom level, tapping the zoom + button restores the map (and text) to 100%.
@michaelbechtold
isn't scaling same in current Pro version? It should also somewhere around 70% jump to the previous zoom level. To prevent this, it is needed use "zoom lock" function.
Agree with the world map: I've added the condition that the map has to have at least zoom level 11 to appear in quick map switch.
There still appears vector maps optimized for "world map", which is hard to detect. Maybe just by its name "world"? Hmm.
@john_percy
understand. How to solve this ... maybe some option "snap to zoom levels". I'll look at it.
TXs Menion.
I understand zoom lock. But to get to the 70% in the first place, fiddling with this jumping threshold is annoying.
Why not allow a general scale factor below 100% - all needs met. Usage up to the taste of the user.
My main impression: I wish the + and - buttons still locked to the next nearest 100%. Because vector map text at 80% is much smaller than 130%, it's nice to reset the text size with a simple tap-to-zoom, after accidentally zooming to some random factor. I also assume rendering is more efficient (is it?) at an even 100%.
Overall, things seem to work well, both with LoMaps/LoThemes and OAM+EleThemes, a mix of V3 and V4 with OAM. (Are there particular maps & themes that would be better for testing?)
The 3rd Alpha did crash once (disappeared quietly) when I was zooming a map, and crashed again on restart, but on the next attempt it started up OK. (The system's take-crash-dump option was greyed out, though I thought I'd enabled that some time ago.)
Occasionally when zooming, a rectangular section of the vector map won't render, or takes long enough that I don't wait for it.
The long-standing bug of empty vector tiles not rendering at least a background (due to a sparse map; nothing mapped) seems to be gone. :)
I have reworked my Voluntary & Velocity themes for the Locus new map core alpha release. Download the attachment, unzip it and add to your Locus themes directory. You should find two new themes appear for v4 maps: Voluntary Mapsforge Alpha and Velocity Alpha. They are intended to be as similar as practicable to my previous Voluntary and Velocity themes.
They are aware of the change to tile size and scaling and the zoom level at which map items appear. However they will not be totally consistent across screens with different resolutions. Locus enhancements are naturally absent and sore missed.
Edit: The latest development version of my themes has moved to the beta topic here (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6502.msg55058#msg55058).
@michaelbechtold
hmm so your request: allow "Maps > Advanced features > Increase map resolution" select values below 100% right? I've just tested it and it seems to work. Anyway, I'm personally not a big fan of this. 50% scale means 4x more map tiles = slower map, slower app, lower battery. Is there any particular map that needs some special scaling? Every online map has own scale factor, so it is possible to rescale a single online map individually to be "same" as other maps.
@Viajero Perdido
you are not the first, so implemented. Zooming by buttons will try to catch 100% scale levels. Performance effect won't play role I believe, but agree that maps at 100% may look shart and consistent.
@john_percy
perfect, thanks.
I can imagine, once this bigger task will be completed, I may try to add support for some special tags (previously used by my own MF version) directly into V4 maps over official MapsForge library. We may discuss this later.
Thanks for the quick 100% fix!
I've noticed some glitchiness with cut-off text labels. Using John's latest VolUK alpha theme (also thanks!), an OAM V4 ML map, and text scaling at 200%, and zoom at various levels including 100%:
- Pan map to a new area, let it render
- Notice a cut-off text label.
- Zoom out (-) and in (+). (Or: pan away* and back again.)
- Label is now completely rendered.
(* Even panning just one pixel past where the missing-text area disappears from view, it magically appears when you pan back.)
It'll be wonderful to see this finally fixed - which I'm pretty sure we're about to see happen. :)
Hmm to be true, I see no simple solution here.
The current system as is, is itself a lot better than was before. Anyway, in these cases, when the text that appears in the second tile should be drawn over already visible map tile, it is a problem. For now ...
Quote from: menion on April 25, 2019, 17:34:48
@michaelbechtold
hmm so your request: allow "Maps > Advanced features > Increase map resolution" select values below 100% right? I've just tested it and it seems to work. Anyway, I'm personally not a big fan of this. 50% scale means 4x more map tiles = slower map, slower app, lower battery. Is there any particular map that needs some special scaling? Every online map has own scale factor, so it is possible to rescale a single online map individually to be "same" as other maps.
Thank you Menion. Currently I am manually working with 70%, which is only a factor of 2. Driver for this is a proper balance between World Map and Vector Maps.
If there would be an "own scale factor" for world map, like for the online maps, that would do as well.
Quote from: menion on April 26, 2019, 11:59:38
Hmm to be true, I see no simple solution here... Anyway, in these cases, when the text that appears in the second tile should be drawn over already visible map tile, it is a problem. For now ...
I thought Mapsforge had a solution to this, involving a separate text layer and iterating around the active tile for the truncated text. I guess it's not the fastest process.
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Hi Menion, just installed the latest alpha on a M5 tablet.
Scaling below 100% is not there. At the same time - other than before - a manual adjustment is now only possible down to 80%, then it jumps to lower ZL and crazy % >100%. But then, when I tap "+", it jumps to 133%, regardless of the scale I adjusted manually. I.e. User has lost control.
I think the latest version is now the freshly-released beta (via the usual beta channel), which would render the alpha obsolete.
Haven't tried it yet.
@john_percy
mapsForge itself probably has a solution for this, but it is not so easy. MapsForge is not just "draw a single map tile" library, which needs Locus Map. MapsForge itself is a complete system that takes care of everything, not just drawing a map tile. And because of this, it is complicated to use it in apps like Locus Map. Locus Map now uses so-called DirectRenderer which is the result of this discussion (https://github.com/mapsforge/mapsforge/issues/1085), but as you see ... still not 100% perfect. I'll look at it if I do not miss anything.
@michaelbechtold
as I wrote previously, I'm not big fan of downscaling maps, so it is not included in Beta version.
Not sure what maps you use, but for me it is possible to scale manually to 71% with any vector maps. Anyway jump to 133% is interesting. Which map should I try, may I get it somehow? Thank you!
@Viajero Perdido
ah thanks, I wanted to notify here this information. Yes, this is correct. I've decided to publish version now over the regular Beta channel. It should be stable and usable enough for tests. It is then easier to update and also version itself should be half the size of the supplied APK file.
Well, my understanding was that you personally would not employ <100% scale. Which does not imply you deny that to everybody else ...
The map is the W1-10MBT from OAM, used as world map.
I also got the PlayeStore update on my LG G5.
Here I can manually reach 70%, but a "+" jumps to 100% rather than 70% with the next ZL.
In any case, a scale definition for the world maps would help.
Nono, I'm always trying to think "globally" :).
I personally (in this case) feel this "less than 100%" thing, like a too big hack to be true. Maybe anyone else with an opinion on this "map scale settings" less than 100%?
Michael, really, if the only map you think that need this setting, then maybe it should worth to regenerate this world map instead of adding unnecessary settings into the app? Also, such settings consume more power and make the map slower ... definitely not what we (as users) wants.
I'll anyway try this map as well.
@Viajero Perdido, @john_percy
hmm I think I found something about these map labels ...
@menion Good!
Also. I spent some time today adding 54 POIs to Locus and the map redrawing got slower and slower and sometimes whole tiles were missed out until I moved the map back and forwards. Restarting the phone didn't improve matters but hiding all the points then displaying them again speeded things up to normal speed and full display. Is this possible?
Hi Menion, you know my "addiction" to Lucus since years, but we have to admit there are other people who use other apps in addition or instead.
When testing ANY raster map with Locus and with Orux you notice factors between the scales. For the same map you need a 4x magnifying glass in Orux. And I do not propose a discussion who is right or wrong here.
Alos, for raster maps, the battery argument does not hold, I suppose. Displaying images is highly optimized by Smartphone architecture, more or less tiles do not really matter, hence the scaling below 100% does not hurt. Yet, rendering vector maps is the real battery power burden.
So, to make all ends meet, I propose you give the overview map its own scaling factor, hence vector processing in higher ZLs will not be affected by a scale down.
Quote from: menion on April 26, 2019, 11:59:38
Hmm to be true, I see no simple solution here.
The current system as is, is itself a lot better than was before. Anyway, in these cases, when the text that appears in the second tile should be drawn over already visible map tile, it is a problem. For now ...
Correct me if I understand the current system incorrectly: Everything is rendered "by tile", including texts. So this would also be the reason that https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/vector-maps-dont-rotate-labels-and-icons is difficult to do? Or is there any chance this will be easier with new system? I noticed that in new beta, when zooming in and out, text labels usually appear after the rest of the map, implying they're now rendered separately?
My first thoughts of the new system:
- Vector maps look much nicer
- Overall feels slower, also had the odd crash, but mostly some missing tiles. Is to be expected, I suppose, but stability has to be improved.
- "Increase map resolution" on vector maps muuuch better due to not just enlarging the tiles. That said, it is a little confusing: My standard setting was 250%. But not all elements seem to be zoomed by 2.5. Streets get only about 50% wider, labels are perhaps double the size. That's at least confusing. Furthermore, now that vector and raster maps are handled differently, "map resolution" seems not the right term for both operations. For vector, resolution may be right, but for raster maps, it's more an "enlarge map".
- Clickable POIs from my vector maps now also appear on my downloaded raster maps. That's kinda nice, but I don't see where that could be turned off - icons may overlay icons within the map, which is not great. Also, icon size seems to be fixed.
- Love the fact that you can now overlay anything other anything. I had some overlays that I couldn't use before (like hiking trails), which work great now. However, now that I copied them back to my phone, they clutter up the "Quick Map Switch" menu. As they're only overlays (with alpha channel), they make no sense to use on their own. Please add a flag to mark a map as "overlay only". Or at least a "Don't show in Quick Map switch".
- Like the tilting, but as I wrote in main thread for current version, user should be somehow informed about the functionality. Easily confusing.
- The "zoom lock" restructions also bother me a little. As I wrote in main thread, I think user should not be restricted for no reason to zoom to lower than 50%. Sure, things get slower, but that's up to the user to decide whether it's OK still. On my HDPI devices, I love the overview+details I can get by zooming out with zoom lock.
Apart from that, I must admit, the whole MapForge V3, V4, V5 discussion has me confused. By now, I seriously wonder if I'm missing out on functionality that would be possible if I just used the right maps/themes. I can't even seem to figure out what the default Locus Maps + Internal Themes combination uses. Perhaps it doesn't matter much, but I'm wondering if I would gain a lot by using OpenAndroMaps plus their themes again. Perhaps some Knowledge Base article would be nice together with the next version - or did I miss something?
I'd just noticed the same issue with "increase map resolution" on a vector map. If I lock the zoom then magnify the map, everything grows in size, which is correct and expected. If I "increase map resolution" to 200% the texts grow by 200% (linearly) but the map otherwise goes to an enlarged version of the next lower zoom level, displaying exactly the same map area. The road widths are only slightly greater.
What's more, I'm fairly certain that the change from one zoom level to the next is not 200% (2×) but ✓2×. Two steps of zoom are needed to change a linear distance by a factor of two. If I'm right, I suspect the percentage zoom displayed in the top bar when I do a two finger zoom is incorrect.
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Quote from: john_percy on April 29, 2019, 10:27:20
I'd just noticed the same issue with "increase map resolution" on a vector map. If I lock the zoom then magnify the map, everything grows in size, which is correct and expected. If I "increase map resolution" to 200% the texts grow by 200% (linearly) but the map otherwise goes to an enlarged version of the next lower zoom level, displaying exactly the same map area. The road widths are only slightly greater.
As I wrote above, I also think the factor is wrong - but the fact that the map area is unchanged to me is exactly as expected. Actually, that's what I ind great about the new system, the decoupling of two different aspects: Zoom (determining what area is shown) and resolution (size of the elements on the map). Also as I wrote, "resolution" may be a misleading word, because now with vector maps, we always have, one could say, ideal resolution. So perhaps for vector maps, it's also rather "enlarge map content sizes" (while for raster maps, it's "enlarge map"). Doesn't roll off the tongue that easily, granted...
@slarti76 But wouldn't you expect road widths to increase in the same way as texts do?
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Quote from: john_percy on April 29, 2019, 10:46:39
@slarti76 But wouldn't you expect road widths to increase in the same way as texts do?
Tbh, I find the way it currently behaves quite balanced - I
do think that road widths have to increase, too. When I choose "Increase resolution" (or whatever we call it in the end), I want to be able to also better see small roads/tracks. So say your feeling is right that when texts increase by factor x, widths increase by sq(x), to me, visually, that looks good. Apart from the fact that I chose 250% and am pretty sure that even texts only increase by factor 2. But it is kinda confusing (why not everything with same factor?) and will have to be according to some fixed rule (what element uses which f(x)).
Quote from: menion on April 19, 2019, 08:19:59
@zossebart
WMS maps: any map for test?
EDIT: wms sample not needed, I see one big problem, thanks!
Should this problem be fixed in current beta? Because I still have problems with some WMS maps.
If beta should be fixed already, I should provide a WMS URL to reproduce it...
@john_percy
what you mean by "adding 54 POIs to Locus"? Just ordinary points from own database? If not, how to simulate this slowdown caused by points? 54 points should really have absolutely no impact on performance, weird.
Why do you think that scale x2 is not correct? Simply check scale line on the bottom of the map to confirm that distance factor really scale x2.
@michaelbechtold
scaling of maps may be a problem because I do not expect, other apps will do the same as Locus Map now do.
Look on this please from the overview: display any common online map (like OSM classic) and any vector map in older Locus Map version and do the same in current Beta version. You will see the difference.
With higher DPI of your device, online (generally any raster) map are more and more useless (the difference between vector map and raster map is bigger). In the beta version, these raster maps should give the same resolution of texts, symbols etc. as vector maps.
You created these world maps some time ago and they itself are scaled a little bit to solve the problem with non-scaled raster maps on its own. Am I right? And this is the problem. If you do world maps with the same scale as are all other raster maps (also Google Maps and other online web maps), this won't be a problem.
Anyway possible solutions:
a) every map may have own parameter in the app UI to set custom scale > something I would like to avoid as it may not be needed. Also, it will need extra work on the users side to optimize it.
b) custom parameter that may be defined directly in SQLite/MBT map that allows telling Locus Map "hey, this map should be scaled little bit different". It will anyway need to modify map itself, so users will need to download a new version.
Is version b) usable for you?
@slarti76
texts are drawn on the tile so yes, the mentioned topic is a problem because of this. In latest MapsForge versions are some attempts to render texts separately, but how exactly it works and mainly if this may be used by maps like Locus Map: do not know yet. Anyway, texts are still drawn directly into the tile. What you see is a small alpha effect I made, that just do small interpolation during drawing between old and new map tile.
"Increase map resolution" should have the same effect on both raster and vector maps. You see a difference there? Weird. Maybe raster maps look sooner little blurred. It is as I wrote to Michael before. Raster maps itself are already little scaled by device DPI.
(Also to John's post): it is correct that the visible area remains the same. Usage of this feature is to see bigger content in the same area. So rescale maps by 200% result in using lower zoom level scale to 200% (to keep same visible area).
Anyway as I see, John is correct that result is ok for raster maps, but not exact for vector maps. Most probably because the road in lower zoom level X is thinner than in next zoom level Y, so "road width X times 200%" is not same as expected "road width Y times 200%". Hmm, an alternative solution should be using still the same zoom level rescaled by X% and display a smaller area
...
Clickable POIs are a little funny. I noticed this also a few days ago. It is not my intent, it is more a side effect that happens if you enable LoMaps and then any other map. Anyway, I found it really useful so maybe we may consider adding LoPoins into side menu > layers and allow to enable/disable them independent on LoMaps? Hmm ...
Exclude certain maps from "quick map switch" ... the ideal candidate for voting? (mainly because it's not a 5-minute task)
The scale below 50% ... there are two features we may talk about
a) "increase map resolution" that may allow setting value below 100% (as suggested by @michaelbechtold)
b) and "zoom lock" after which you may scale below 50%
I personally think that a) should not be needed as all maps should be correctly optimized to 100% scale now. But I may be convinced to 75% if there really be an interest :). But still ... I see quite well on a short distance and with the resolution set to 100% (so this option disabled), I sometimes have real problems in the terrain to read something on the map. Big difference compares to the sofa.
b) slowness, possible crashes with scale 10%? Locus Map is quilty, definitely not the user. So consider this as small "Locus Map good name protection".
Just a few days ago I also had a small weird feeling from this which map to which theme etc. So Michal (from our team) already has on table idea for a blog post related to vector maps & it's themes.
@zossebart
yes please. If any WMS does now work correctly (please check if any change in defined CRS has an effect), provide me Url to test.
Uff, sorry for the long post ...
@menion
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56
@john_percy
what you mean by "adding 54 POIs to Locus"? Just ordinary points from own database? If not, how to simulate this slowdown caused by points? 54 points should really have absolutely no impact on performance, weird.
I manually entered the co-ordinates, moved to the location, added point, edited name and icon 54 times. 54 points normally don't slow down Locus (much) but maybe the adding and editing process did. I don't know. Anyway something did and restarting the phone didn't help, only turning the points off and then on again!
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56
Why do you think that scale x2 is not correct? Simply check scale line on the bottom of the map to confirm that distance factor really scale x2.
You are absolutely right, sorry. For some reason I was convinced that two zoom operations were needed to scale the map by 2. Maybe connected with the way vector road widths scale by 1.5x (or whatever) on each zoom operation.
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56
(Also to John's post): it is correct that the visible area remains the same. Usage of this feature is to see bigger content in the same area. So rescale maps by 200% result in using lower zoom level scale to 200% (to keep same visible area).
Anyway as I see, John is correct that result is ok for raster maps, but not exact for vector maps. Most probably because the road in lower zoom level X is thinner than in next zoom level Y, so "road width X times 200%" is not same as expected "road width Y times 200%". Hmm, an alternative solution should be using still the same zoom level rescaled by X% and display a smaller area
(a) As I see it, with raster maps "increase resolution" actually mimics a
lower resolution device showing the same map area. It may have some use, but what I would have
expected is a magnifying effect a bit like Zoom Lock provides. So I prefer your alternative solution. (As it stands, for some of my custom raster maps at some zoom levels it has no effect at all, depending on what real zoom levels the online map provides.)
(b) For vector maps also I would prefer your alternative solution. Some days in the field it is difficult to see the detail on the map and I just want to be able to magnify the display. The current arrangement is little help to me for this. I know Zoom Lock will do this but it does just that and
locks the zoom. I want the flexibility to be able to turn on Increase Resolution (screen magnification really) by a click in my Quick Settings menu and still be able to zoom in and out of the map at will.
Menion, don't worry about long post, appreciate the extensive reply!
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56
@slarti76
texts are drawn on the tile so yes, the mentioned topic is a problem because of this. In latest MapsForge versions are some attempts to render texts separately, but how exactly it works and mainly if this may be used by maps like Locus Map: do not know yet. Anyway, texts are still drawn directly into the tile. What you see is a small alpha effect I made, that just do small interpolation during drawing between old and new map tile.
I see, makes sense looking at it again. I totally see the technical difficulties here, it's just - as the comments in the Idea also show - one of the few aspects where Locus is really not state-of-the-art anymore.
Then again, point icons are always shown "upright", so there is a layer above the tiles that is updated all the time. Can't the texts go there?
Quote"Increase map resolution" should have the same effect on both raster and vector maps. You see a difference there? Weird. Maybe raster maps look sooner little blurred. It is as I wrote to Michael before. Raster maps itself are already little scaled by device DPI.
Yeah, I still didn't do a direct comparison, but my gut feeling is also that raster maps look worse.
Which brings my to a question I always wanted to ask: How are tiles stored when you do "Download Map"? As JPG? Because I have a raster map that was created by someone else which looks much better when zoomed compared to Google Maps downloads by Locus. With the latter, I'm pretty sure I see JPG artifacts, whereas the other map probably uses PNG.
Is that correct/possible? Would it perhaps make sense to offer a PNG option for the Map Download? Shouldn't be such a biggie, the libraries are all there in Android. Maps get bigger, I presume, but phones with SD cards don't really have a problem there...
Quote(Also to John's post): it is correct that the visible area remains the same. Usage of this feature is to see bigger content in the same area. So rescale maps by 200% result in using lower zoom level scale to 200% (to keep same visible area).
Anyway as I see, John is correct that result is ok for raster maps, but not exact for vector maps. Most probably because the road in lower zoom level X is thinner than in next zoom level Y, so "road width X times 200%" is not same as expected "road width Y times 200%". Hmm, an alternative solution should be using still the same zoom level rescaled by X% and display a smaller area
(also to Johns answer) While I like the current effect with vector maps, I do see his point and would actually prefer if both map types behave the same way here.
But tell me if I got the behaviour of "Increase Map Resolution" correct:
With
raster maps, you take a tile and just enlarge it by X %.
With
vector maps, in the
old system, you also render a tile at 100% and then enlarge it.
With
vector maps in the new system, what exactly happens? Is there still enlarging (with loss in precision/resolution) involved? Or is it always rendered with best precision?
In fact, two factors involved. Example for 250%:
- 1a) Take current zoom level and multiply all sizes by 2.5
- 1b) Take closest zoom level (here: +1) and then multiply all sizes by 1.5
- 2a) Keep field of view identical to 100%
- 2b) Make field of view smaller by factor 2.5
Right now, it seems to be 1b)+2a), John proposes 1a)+2b), do I understand that correctly?
QuoteClickable POIs are a little funny. I noticed this also a few days ago. It is not my intent, it is more a side effect that happens if you enable LoMaps and then any other map. Anyway, I found it really useful so maybe we may consider adding LoPoins into side menu > layers and allow to enable/disable them independent on LoMaps? Hmm ...
Please do that! Much simpler and less in-your-face (smaller icons) then having to activate those POIs in the POI menu. Always wanted to be able to use the POI the same in all map types.
QuoteExclude certain maps from "quick map switch" ... the ideal candidate for voting? (mainly because it's not a 5-minute task)
Fair enough, will do.
Lastly, @scale belo 50%:
I see your point about 10% and the "good name protection", I just think for both cases, not allowing it at all is too much of a restriction, what with modern fast phones. My personal compromise suggestion would be 50% minimum for a) and 25% for b).
Yes, Menion, in the initial versions of the world maps, I set the label sizes for Maperitive so that in Locus (old version) as well as some other Apps, the labels were readable easily.
With Locus (new) there exists no label size that would fit Locus as well as other Apps.
Your suggestion to add a scale parameter into the map DB itself I can handle easily. Yet, this would imply that I have to make a choice for all users. I'm not known to be shy, but nevertheless I prefer that every user has his/her own say adn choice, hence a parameter inside Locus would be better. Not everybody dares to patch sqlitedbs, aklthough it is pretty easy with SqliteBrowser.
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56
@zossebart
yes please. If any WMS does now work correctly (please check if any change in defined CRS has an effect), provide me Url to test.
Please try if "https://geodienste.sachsen.de/wms_geosn_flurstuecke/guest?" (parcel info of saxony) displays anything for you. I see nothing regardless of the CRS (did not test all, but many).
However, the data query button seems to work...
@john_percy
so hiding and showing points back solved this problem and now it's fast as before? Good to hear. It may be then small slowdown caused by automatic map loading I found yesterday. So hope it won't repeat with next Beta version.
@slarti76
it is correct, all points, tracks etc. are in layer above map. Imagine whole system as many many layers placed in row.
At the bottom is the base map, in this case, MapsForge map created by MapsForge library. And this library provides to Locus simple method "give me a map tile X, Y, Z. And this library also take care not just about the background of map and roads, but also about the correct placing of labels. So what Locus receive, is complete ready-to-use map tile. I'll look at this anyway later if there isn't any method how to extra labels and work with them manually out of this MapsForge library. But really, later ...
JPEG/PNG compression
I'm surprised by your discover, nice. Check topic and mainly my post here: https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/sqlite-maps-compression-png-vs-jpeg#comment-26019 . It explains all.
Agree that with new rescale of raster maps, this topic may be re-open to the discussion.
Rescale of tiles: it's same for raster/vector maps. App prepares map tile in 100% and then rescale it to the required map scale.
Difference we talk about: situation > "scale resolution = 400%" and zoom 16
1) that current beta pick zoom 14 and draw it 4x bigger. You see the same area, but a map from lower zoom.
2) old system and system John talk about: app pick zoom 16 and draw it 4x bigger. You see the 4x smaller area but from the same zoom. So it mimic "zoom lock" function.
I'll look at it how complicated may be to switch from 1. to 2. But if you do not fight against, I also think that v2 will be better.
@michaelbechtold
"I prefer that every user has his/her own say adn choice" > you already made a choice when you created these maps. There also was no setting in Locus Map to rescale map labels and you decided to create them a lot bigger than are in almost all other online maps!
So what I offer, is to create a new map with the included parameter, that will say to Locus Map "scale this map only to 50% compare to other online maps".
You "fight" for an additional parameter that allows setting the custom scale to every map. I do not want to say "never", but for now, this is the second case when someone wants this (one guy on help desk as well) and in both cases, we talk about custom hand-made maps. Based on this, I still think that such setting is not needed.
@zossebart
interesting. Added, enabled all found layers, left 3857 CRS and it works well. Hmm maybe you may try to delete Locus/cache directory, just for sure, there aren't any cached tiles from the old version.
Quote from: menion on May 02, 2019, 16:12:33so hiding and showing points back solved this problem and now it's fast as before? Good to hear. It may be then small slowdown caused by automatic map loading I found yesterday. So hope it won't repeat with next Beta version.
It's working fine now, thanks.
Quote from: menion on May 02, 2019, 16:12:33
@michaelbechtold
"I prefer that every user has his/her own say adn choice" > you already made a choice when you created these maps. There also was no setting in Locus Map to rescale map labels and you decided to create them a lot bigger than are in almost all other online maps!
So what I offer, is to create a new map with the included parameter, that will say to Locus Map "scale this map only to 50% compare to other online maps".
I made a choice in the past indeed, and it more or less worked for all Apps and all devices. With the new Locus approach there is a FACTOR of 4 that breaks everything, and it triggered a more fundamanetal rethinking :-) Anyway, I do not want to fight philosophy battles.
And your proposal should do the job, although I do not exactly understand the mechanics (will 50% be hardcoded in Locus ? Will it be a parameter for the world maps ?).
TXs and cheers
Michael
Quote from: menion on May 02, 2019, 16:12:33
@zossebart
interesting. Added, enabled all found layers, left 3857 CRS and it works well. Hmm maybe you may try to delete Locus/cache directory, just for sure, there aren't any cached tiles from the old version.
Thanks, that helped. It's working now!
@michaelbechtold
Downloaded map: W1-8-MBt.mbtiles
Version: new Beta 3.27.2.10
Original map
screen: map_v1.png
Modification
image: map_modification.png
Result, modified map
image: map_v2.png
New scale system is multiplied by this 0.25 value, so app uses two fewer zooms. Anyway, the result won't be the same on all devices because the original scale is still defined by device DPI. Which is absolutely logical and something I really do not want to change.
Thank you Menion, I understand the mechanics now, with the second picture.
Most prob. I will put a 0.5 into the mbtiles as a default.
I understand very well you want to preserve the new feature of dpi sensitivity as a general feature.
Will test myself V. 10 ASAP.
PS: the new version will be a beta through Google Play?
I'm 100% sure that DPI applied to raster maps is the correct method. Why? Texts, icons, whole UI, almost everything scale based on device DPI because there are huge differences between small and huge resolutions. And only raster maps are still ... same.
New Beta version is already available on Google Play so feel free to test it. I believe that 0.5 value will be an ideal compromise for smaller and also bigger devices.
Quote from: menion on May 02, 2019, 16:12:33
JPEG/PNG compression
I'm surprised by your discover, nice. Check topic and mainly my post here: https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/sqlite-maps-compression-png-vs-jpeg#comment-26019 . It explains all.
Agree that with new rescale of raster maps, this topic may be re-open to the discussion.
Thx for the link, interesting. However, it's 3 years old, so I have the feeling that especially the comparison might not be up-to-date. I was also just thinking, that perhaps now WEBP should be considered as format. It's developped and endorsed by Google, so I assume the Android support should be good and is more likely to be improved in terms of speed and efficiency in the future than the others. What do you think?
Quote from: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:30:56Exclude certain maps from "quick map switch" ... the ideal candidate for voting? (mainly because it's not a 5-minute task)
=> https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/flag-to-hide-maps-from-quick-map-switch