Android 11+, changes

[Menion]

@tapio
exactly this is what I've discovered a few days ago. Access to int/Android/data may be obtained by the small hack and Locus Map uses it to transfer data between Pro and 4 versions. Seems to be a security hole in Android to be true.

On SD card, this hack does not work and there is no known method how to access app private data stored on the SD card as I know.

This also answers @balloni55 post above.

[Tapio]

Every app which operates with external data (like Locus vs. OAM maps eg) - What is Googles idea here? Only the app itself is allowed to retrieve/store such data? This would be a huge step back (and a huge step towards Apple stupidity).

[michaelbechtold]

Same country, same ideology, same stupidity.

[0709]

Instead of the desire to install the latest Android UPGRADE more important becomes to be able to install a still functional flexible Android version by DOWNGRADING.  You have to worry more and more about trying to upgrade or not.

[Tapio]

Guys, inhale, exhale, repeat...

[0709]

You are right, Tapio. But a lot of flexibility is lost, isn't it? It is no longer very pleasant.

[slarti76]

You are right, Tapio. But a lot of flexibility is lost, isn't it? It is no longer very pleasant.

If I have to decide between performance and still-being-able-to-use-all-my-maps, that's much more than "flexibility". For the first time since I'm active in Locus testing-and-giving-feedback, this could be a make-or-break-moment for me. My outdoor phone (XCover Pro) is neither the fastest nor has the most internal memory. I'm not gonna use my "good" phone for outdoor stuff, so I'm not gonna say it's a no-go, will have to see how it performs, but I'm really anxious...

[balloni55]

Hello menion
question,
if a user moves his Vector maps to the extSD to Android/data and later wants to add e.g. OAM V5 map with the corresponding theme, how can this be done if the folder structure is not visible to the user?

[michaelbechtold]

I just tried to populate the private mapsVector on private external SD and failed with both, Solid Explorer and x-plore.
You can READ private data on external SD, but I failed writing (copy some file in a test)
That would leave two options:
- take SD out and put it into a PC/MAC/linux box and do the dirty work there
- use adb while connected to one of above
I have done the first, but only read about the second.

[michaelbechtold]

@Menion:
I could not wait until next week because I am so curious ...
So I started trying, not on my S10 for daily use, but on the Tab S6 light (64 GB total internal space, large external SD) and found some essential problems.
My plan was to use the private section of internal SD (/Android/data/menion/...) as the main Locus location, then set the external SD for mapsVector and SRTM.
What happens?
1 long start - question: do or postpone
2 offers move
3 LMP loss of access warning
4 selection private - long pause 3 GB free - not enough - cancel
See attached for the situation: need for 1 GB (see external SD option), 3 GB free on internal SD.
Why is that? Most probably because of the SRTM and mapsVector that sit on external SD and require 75 GB in total. So I should have unchecked the two choices, right?

Which brings me to an overall judgement:
1) the steps and explainations are quite OK, but
2) it lacks overview for the user and
3) a plan

And there is a good chance that a user has ONE view of the storage reality, while Locus has another. Recipe for disaster, pain and discussions.

Hence I propose you do not offer the migration immediately, but produce a full storage picture how Locus sees it.
All the elements, with their sizes, and the options how and where to move them. And send this as a mail (share ...)
Something like:

Current Locus storage layout
=======================
Locus main: internalSD/Locus 1 .5 GB
Locus mapsVector: externalSD/LocusMaps/mapsVector 20 GB
Locus mapsVector: externalSD/LocusMaps/SRTM 55 GB

Internal SD capacity total/free: 64 GB / 3 GB
External SD capacity total/free: 256 GB / 151 GB

Next: what should a non-IT person do with a non-trivial situation?
1) understand the picture
2) understand the options

Can people derive that themselves? Hardly, hence they need advise.

A text that explains the options given various scenarios should be added to above report:
1) the total Locus storage fits fully into internalSD: do whatever you want, but internal preferred for data safety and performance reasons
2) current data on externalSD does not fit into internalSD: ...
3) ...
some homework here for all potential cases.

My setup above would need the following actions:
1) /Locus goes to internalSD
2) AT THE SAME TIME (!!!) current SRTM and mapsVector need a choice for their final target (I know you could uncheck both and doe manual stuff later, but that is not good, because it leaves a number of people stranded, in particular as the file managers fail so far)

Also: give warnings about long wait times for steps that take long, and tell users to click "Wait", not abort. Some of the steps 1-4 take unexpectedly long. I trust for a good reason, but people may wonder ...

So far my 2c

Cheers
Michael

[Tapio]

Just want to add that I also experienced long waiting time, like 15 seconds. See screenshot.

[michaelbechtold]

Definitely long times, hence my request to put a warning into the documentation.

But things get worse than that:
- also connection to linux via file system integration (Nautilus and alike) stop at the /Android/data/.../Locus folder, which is shown empty, although it is not.
- trying to migrate a huge SRTM folder makes Locus die after quite some time.

Has someone tried to use adb file system access to those private folders?

If the latter does not fly, dire times are ahead.
As long as Locus does not provide 1" resolution DEM files, there will be no way - that I know - to make Locus work with better DEMs than Locus download provides.
Also it would be bye-bye to side loading other map files than LoMaps. You could only use map sources that provide Locus-Actions to install with the help of Locus itself.

For 1"-SRTM Menion would need to provide some download feature for Sonny's DEM data e.g. With wild card selection.

Someone has smarter ideas to overcome those limitations?

As of now (late 2021-12-02) today's findings mean: stay away from the latest Locus version for now.
And NEVER EVER deinstall the current version.

[michaelbechtold]

Update: Total Commander allows WRITING into the INTERNAL SD private folder (hence more powerful than Solid Explorer or x-plore - interesting).

However: this is was the TC wizzard also posts:

ghisler(Author) » 2021-06-20, 06:33 UTC
Unfortunately as I already wrote:

    Note that Android/data on the external SD card cannot be accessed with any method.

I have tried the tricks to pass the correct path to the Android file picker, but it doesn't want to go there. So even the Android files app cannot access this folder. The only way to access it would be to "eject" the card via settings, take it out of the phone, put it in a card reader, and then access it from a PC or via OTG adapter from the phone.

We need someone who can beat the sh.. out of these Google so called Android architects. Narrow minded morons they are.

[michaelbechtold]

Update: Test from PC

From a W10 PC I could even write to external SD private folders. Puuuuhhhh.
That allows some room to maneuver for quite a number of people.

Still a shame on Google's part. Arrogant, not thinking, not listening, not trustworthy on the technical side either.

[slarti76]

Did anybody try things with a rooted phone? I assume there every directory should be accessible?!