Author Topic: Android 11+, changes  (Read 8765 times)

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 23:02:07 »
between apps (like SRTM data or large map files (vector and raster); apps from different developers.
Just to clarify - so all vector maps have to be in an internal directory? Attachment related. Fortunately no problem for me, no sharing between apps.
Mbechthold, I wonder if gaining root and creating symlinks could be a solution.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 13:35:36 by tapio »
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 

Offline Menion

  • Locus team
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 12789
  • Thanked: 930 times
  • Country: cz
    • View Profile
    • https://www.asamm.com
  • Device: Pixel 5, A12
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 23:25:08 »
Michael, ask yourself. The answer will be of course "Not everything is possible" :).

That's the same with Locus. Not everything is possible. Even an Android can't cover all use-cases by default. If you want more, you have to use the non-Google Play app or apps on rooted devices.

Tasker also offers a huge amount of options and many require a root of the device. Is a bad? I do not think so. There has to be a default secure setup for most of the users. And this now happens with this file-system change. Apps can no longer easily access the data of other apps.

Michael sorry, but I do not want to write to Google. It is a waste of time. You probably have a use case, where current changes cause a problem. I'm sorry for this, but you will have to find a solution on your own.

I'll work next year on some tools on how to detect wasted space in the app, unused maps, something with SRTM files etc. to reduce the required space of the app. And I believe, we will get used to it ...
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 final download
 

Offline balloni55

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
  • Thanked: 181 times
  • Country: de
    • View Profile
  • Device: Samsung XCover 4s Android 11
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2021, 08:39:11 »
Hello menion
at the beginning of the post you wrote
Quote
Also no support for the custom "srtm" and "mapsVector" directory

I'll also today finally publish the new Beta version where all these changes will be presented.
I don't understand, I am using the new beta and my vector maps and strm data are still stored on the extSD and this data is used.
Locus Map Classic 3.60.0 AFA
Locus Map 4.9.0 Gold AFA
LMP User ID 7ee4dad32
LM4 User ID e06d572d4
 
The following users thanked this post: tapio

Offline Menion

  • Locus team
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 12789
  • Thanked: 930 times
  • Country: cz
    • View Profile
    • https://www.asamm.com
  • Device: Pixel 5, A12
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2021, 08:57:12 »
It's complicated  :)

Google allowed one special and important exception.

In case
- you have installed a previous version that had full access, so 3.55.1 or 4.4.3
- and you UPDATE to new version with limited access
- system grant temporary access to old data, so the app can migrate data to a private directory

At the moment, you RE-INSTALL app (so you INSTALL app as the new one), this exception is removed and the app can no longer access internal memory directly.

You have a case we do not cover correctly. You already had data in the private directory but still working on custom directories. Seems there is missing some warning that these custom dirs stop work once ...
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 final download
 

Offline 0709

  • Apprentice of Locus
  • **
  • Posts: 112
  • Thanked: 49 times
    • View Profile
    • Locus track navigation
  • Device: THL4000 CM12.1 (A5.1.1) MI A2 Lite (A9)
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2021, 09:11:29 »
@ michaelbechthold.
I agree with you that it is a dirty trick of Google that you cannot even share (large) osm maps which do not contain any sensitive data to be protected. That app developers can't even stand up to the giant means that the fourth realm already exists. Docile and obediently follow what is imposed, no resistance allowed.




Locus Pro 3.59.0
 
The following users thanked this post: michaelbechtold

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2021, 10:01:42 »
I migrated MapsVector to ///_extsd/Android/data/menion.android.locus/files/Locus/MapsVector

Unfortunately Themes are accessible, but not linked to the presets any more, probably presets  use absolute paths? I see in presets-> themes then we also have to reconfigure all those theme specific details. That's unfortunate if you have many presets.

Maps and SRTM migration no problem. Fortunately no need for sharing them between apps for me.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 10:09:49 by tapio »
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 

Offline michaelbechtold

  • Expert
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Thanked: 126 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2021, 11:24:30 »
@ michaelbechthold.
I agree with you that it is a dirty trick of Google that you cannot even share (large) osm maps which do not contain any sensitive data to be protected. That app developers can't even stand up to the giant means that the fourth realm already exists. Docile and obediently follow what is imposed, no resistance allowed.

That is the sad thing indeed. No resistance. Not even trying. Even giants know fear. And they are able to learn, though slowly. And the populace has to re-learn to speak out and up (I am not endorsing silly Querdenker stuff here).

I read thoughts about rooting. Here things go completely wild. Google pretends to secure privacy. And their failure to think it through properly we are talking about rooting. THAT's a real joke :-)

Although I thank for the mention of linking. I thought about that as well last week. But I hoped that privileged apps like file managers might be able to establish such without rooting ...
 

Offline michaelbechtold

  • Expert
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Thanked: 126 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2021, 11:32:22 »
Menion, that is not what your users can expect from you.
I am the most outspoken on that one - easy as a Locus user of many years and a comp.science person since 40 years.
But you should be scared of the silent mass who is not even aware of the pot. tsunami hitting them.

As a partial remedy you should establish the possibility to have both /Andoid/data locations used. Following Michal's point, the right approach would be to have the app function and performance critical parts on the internal private location, while the mostly readonly data like maps and SRTM and alike are allowed on external SD private folder as well.
Then capacity INSIDE the Locus only world will not bite - users do not have to buy a bigger phone :-)
My other challenges are not met, but for the mass of users above should be safe - and keep peace in the user base. And Asamm ...

Good luck.
Cheers
Michael

 
The following users thanked this post: Menion

Offline freischneider

  • Expert
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Thanked: 116 times
    • View Profile
  • Device: Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro, Android 11, Locus Map 4 Gold, Locus-Device-ID: aa54a2bc9
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2021, 12:12:57 »
It's all too complicated for me. I don't even know what I have to do, what I'm allowed to do. I will only update my 2nd phone for now. With the other I wait until there is experience and especially a tutorial what to do.
Is there an address on google where I can complain. I do not want this security. I will create 100 accounts in case of need and write there.
 

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2021, 13:49:24 »
After all, users will choose between internal/external SD. The precise place is something they not necessarily need to know. Locus UI could simply offer a matrix which let's the user pick the desired place with radio buttons (so, pick int or ext sd) for vector maps, srtm, whatever else... And it should manage the file movements in a secure way.
I don't like the move towards apple, where people even don't need to be aware of files and folders. But otoh, bullshit apps, malware, messing with other apps, idk, most people have just a glimpse of clue and need to be protected 😐
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 
The following users thanked this post: freischneider

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2021, 13:56:43 »
It's all too complicated for me. I don't even know what I have to do,
This is what's expected from you: Put all configurable stuff (by Locus, ie currently SRTM, Backup and MapsVector) to their traditional places below:

/<int_sd>/Android/data/menion.android.locus/files/Locus/
OR
/<ext_sd>/Android/data/menion.android.locus/files/Locus/

AND keep in mind a) data get deleted on uninstall of Locus b) data cannot be shared with other Apps.

That's the future 😊 See my screenshot.
But as long as your device is on Android 10 or less imo there's no need for you to change paths.

a) can be really ugly, eg here maps and srtm are 50+ GB.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 14:11:28 by tapio »
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 

Offline Viajero Perdido

  • Apprentice of Locus
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
  • Device: Samsung Galaxy Tab S7+ (Android 12) and -S2 (Android 7), Blackview BV9900 Pro (Android 9).
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2021, 18:21:57 »
Terminology is really confusing here.  "Internal storage" vs "Internal memory" in the Set Working Directory dialog.  "Internal" vs "External" in this discussion, but both seem to be inside the phone somewhere.  Those who know that one is removable and called "SD" would be confused by an "Internal" option being /sdcard/Locus, which (I think) is in non-removable memory despite the "sdcard" name.  I think only an Android developer could understand all this.

Here's the chance to be clear and non-confusing.  And if there's no need to worry because you're on Android 10 or lower, then please say so in the UI.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 18:24:17 by Viajero Perdido »
 
The following users thanked this post: freischneider, Die Batzen

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2021, 22:43:41 »
I would love it if ALL path configuration would be on one options page, with a clear terminology (eg "Internal storage / removable storage"), with the paths visible (currently they are hidden behind question marks), but clearly just informational, with information on free space, used space.
If there's no removable storage, nothing can be changed (?), then the page is just informational.
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 
The following users thanked this post: Viajero Perdido

Offline tapio

  • Expert
  • Master of Locus
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Thanked: 176 times
    • View Profile
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2021, 19:11:02 »
So exports can only saved to the private directories in Android 11?
LM4 USER ID: 1AACAFF2A2
 

Offline Menion

  • Locus team
  • Professor of Locus
  • *****
  • Posts: 12789
  • Thanked: 930 times
  • Country: cz
    • View Profile
    • https://www.asamm.com
  • Device: Pixel 5, A12
Re: Android 11+, changes
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2021, 20:20:01 »
@tapio
hmm, there will be probably more places where the app uses absolute paths. This is a little unfortunate as I never expected that the app will have to move its private directory to a different location. Sorry for this ...

"Exports" .. right, currently it is not possible, but it is doable. Till now, it was not necessary, now it is, understand.

@freischneider
The best solution ... ignore this topic. If you do not use anything special, the app should just offer "migrate data" process after the update, that was what we tuned all these weeks before. So hopefully, it won't be complicated.

---

Terminology problems ... hmm probably we missed something, thanks guys, we will look at it with Michal.
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
- Advanced topics, sharing of knowledges: you're here!
- LM 4 Beta download, LM 4 final download