Author Topic: Unable to follow track  (Read 478 times)

Offline GusGF

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Unable to follow track
« on: May 16, 2020, 17:52:51 »
Feel like I'm slightly losing the will to live. I'm sure we've all been there, you head out on a walk and how you think navigation should work and how the designers have designed the app are diametrically opposed. You spend more time looking at the screen and getting stressed than enjoying the walk and letting go of that stress.

Problem 1:
The lockscreen comes up and insists, ignoring my finger print which BTW always works but not in this app, that I have to tap in my unlock code on this occasion. So now I have to try and find a place in the shade so I can more easily see the screen.

Problem 2:
I've planned a 16Km route following various walking paths on my phone say A to B, almost circular, left a small gap in which I'm positioned/standing. The arrows on the track are pointing A to B. I tap on the track (a blue line on my map) and a dialogue pops up and I chose navigation. On the next screen I chose the Navigation icon and I'm taken to the map telling me to head for my track endpoint  a 100 metres away as the crow flies completely ignoring the track I'd planned!!

So how does this make any sense. I've tapped on a route that's going anti-clockwise and chosen to navigate it but locus is competely ignoring the track. Even if I go into the main menu and try and navigate the track from there it ends up behaving as if the track doesn't exist.

Confused  ???

One other thing Locus help details What is the difference between a route and a track? But then when I create a route in route planner it appears under 'tracks' but Locus states a track provides a record of where you have been, and when. That's downright confusing
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 17:59:17 by GusGF »
 

Offline 0709

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 19:53:03 »
Tranlated [NL] to [EN] by Google translate help.  so.....pse be carefull

Hi GusGF, if you agree, one problem after another best. We start with the latter.

Quote
One other thing Locus help details What is the difference between a route and a track? But then when I create a route in route planner it appears under 'tracks' but Locus states a track provides a record of where you have been, and when. That's downright confusing

I do agree, indeed is an extremely confusing situation. But that is not by Locus (manual) only, but it is a very general gps usage problem.

It is caused by a difference in the technical language of (rte) route or (trk) track, and the more general language used about what "a route" is exactly (a trajectory)

Technical.
Very popular: A (trk) track.
A (trk) track describes the traject (to be followed) by multiple position points. The trajectory is without any doubt clearly and precisely described.

Less popular: A (rte) route in two variants.
a. A compact (rte) route which only contains some important reference position points along which you absolutely want to go.
The mobile GPS router machine then takes care of the exact traject (along roads) calculation, which means that depending on the setting, possibly by using different roads than you expected.
b. A direct (rte) route. In addition to the reference position points, it also contains the detailed intermediate points with here also the exact course of the trajectory.
How exactly the intermediate points are added is technically even with some more variations ... so even adds more confusing.  Although it can be done by a very simple but unfamiliar method,  so it is unloved.

That's why the web routers and mobile routers just do generate you a (trk) track. With a clear trajectory result and ready.

A navigation track.
To add navigation instructions to a track, navigation waypoints are added containing the instructions.
These navigation waypoints must therefore be linked very tightly and precise with the relevant correct track point.

The whole of such a track including navigation waypoints is then (AND HERE IT COMES!) is in the general language then called designing a route.
So = Very confusing. That is why I mainly used the word trajectory in the beginning, precisely to avoid the general "route" language for a while.

So in general language usage is common:
A route is something you want to follow. This can also be a previously recorded or newly generated track that you wish to follow.
You suddenly call something like this in the general language use than a route, but you actually just do follow a technical (trk) track.
But anyway still everyone calls this a route to follow. (So ​​is very confusing)

Roger?

(To be continued...be patient)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 20:12:25 by 0709 »
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Offline GusGF

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 01:38:43 »
Thank you for replying and I will await your instructions on how I can get Locus maps to navigate the track/route I've created on my phone in Locus maps.  :)
 

Offline 0709

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 10:42:10 »
Problem 1.
I notice your are using the Samsung Galaxy Note 4 SM-N910F.  You say your activity is walking?
May I also inform what protecting case you are using when putting your phone away. Flip case protection? As you have to find out what  setting you prefer, when using the proximity sensor display on/off action, or by a one wave or two wave mode. When by one wave action you do set the display not active, you can close the flip case, no worry the screen is only reactivated by a new (short) wave action.

So it is up to you to find out the method you prefer to steer the screen display on/off function.
Or by by a one wave action or by a double wave action. To say if the proximity function is SET of course.

Anyway Samsung wake up by the hardware home button should do the display wake up job succesfull. As Samsung does have that mechanical home button, can be used for display wake up. Right ?

See my settings in the pdf wich are optimised for cycling, so with phone mounted on bike handlebar.
I always do dismiss and wake up the display by a one wave proximity sensor action. Does not ask for PIN code nor fingerprint.
So copy the red encircled settings into your phone and pse test again the display wake up procedure when Locus is active.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 10:50:41 by 0709 »
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Offline GusGF

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 15:18:39 »
Thank you but my phone is the Honor 8X and have just updated my profile to reflect this. Apologies for the confusion  :P

My biggest concern is the inability to navigate a route I've created in LM. It would be great to get help with this.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 15:24:52 by GusGF »
 

Offline 0709

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 15:40:49 »
Ah ok so no problem 1 anymore ?
Mobile edit  now.

Problem2.
Q: (sorry many questions)
What is the source of your round trip navigation design ?

External web router source or by the offline Locus_brouter or GraphHopper combination?

Design by the Locus "routeplanner" or by the "navigate to" function ?

Planning by using medium Shape Points (green Triangle) or by medium Via Points (Blue squares) ?

When you start navigation are you nearer to the start or the finish ?

Are you selecting autorecalculate None or Route priority or Point priority ?

Can you share an example navigation round trip gpx file and indicate the position where you start the problematic navigate ? (By screen shot or video)


Verstuurd vanaf mijn Mi A2 Lite met Tapatalk

« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 19:49:36 by 0709 »
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Offline GusGF

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 01:49:29 »
What is the source of your round trip navigation design ?
I drew it on the screen with Route Planner using auto mode (hiking), graphHopper was the nav source and use only shape points.
When I start navigation I am in between the start and end point and I am using point priority.

Please see attached screenshots.

In the route planning help documentation it says:
Via points can be created out of shaping points: tap a shaping point and select Change to from the popup label:
What is the benefit of doing this?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 02:22:58 by GusGF »
 

Offline 0709

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 09:46:28 »
Your start navigate position is probably just nearer to finish than start. (Hard to see).

1. Only start navigate when *near to the start.
2. For better understanding Navigation, DO NOT set up autorecalculate mode now. Select: NONE

Advice:
So KEEP in maximal control of your gps mobile machine !  You're the boss !
Do not rely on automatics unless you exactly know what happens by automatic modes.

For now if you need a recalculation trigger by a manual action.  (See pdf and pictures) Find good (imo) distance trigger settings in the same pdf. These settings are for touristic cycling. Away from the track ?  + 36 m shows you the (warning) guiding line,  + 75 m out of track generates an audio WARNING alert,  + 100 m auto triggers autorecalculate ACTION. (if set)  ;)
 
See document in the link. How to set up Navigation.
Select: Autorecalculate: None, Point Priority or Track Priority ? 
Notice the important 'medium' Via Points when using Point Priority calculation !
* Without any medium Via Point available recalculate leads direct towards the final finish point.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09uvnqev0blgrix/Course_track_route%20navigation.doc?dl=0

* Roundtrip circuits.
A general  operational use problem, read Garmin forums, find many similar questions and reports.


* As when you are nearer to the finish (out of track position) Locus indicates the nearest (target) trackpoint at navigation start ! You can test, check and demo by set autorecalculate to NONE !  Use identical distance setting as indicated in the pdf.: (+ 36 m  away from track shows you a guiding line)
 
Notice the guiding line from your position towards the nearest target trackpoint.  Now manually trigger a recalculation (Route Priority) Locus shows the navigation path toward target.  When located nearer to the finish is toward the last trackpoint.

Read EXTRA !  = See what happens using Point Priority !

I notice many users want to start up a tracknavigation session when still in out of track position far away from the startpoint. Why ? No idea.  Also in a competion you are expected to be positioned at the start point and from there on than have a go go go !  As in Tour de France every day you're expected at the startpoint, beiing the fastest before the startpoint does not matter.


EXTRA !

Gus as you have created a round trip without any Via Points (Shape Points only) your use case by autorecalculate using Point Priority selection is more complex !

Even when the trackstart is nearest because of  auto triggering the recalculation (+100m)  by the Point Priority selection will navigate you to the next nearest Via Point anyway.
But as the Start is NOT promoted to be a Via Point (blue square) such will lead you directly to the most important Via Point  = the final Finish Point.  And that is by a very short traject when navigating a round trip.

I will create 2 example video's recalculate by Locus_Brouter offline that demonstrates the differences.

1. When the Start Point IS a Via Point !
https://youtu.be/yqg4vxc39U8
And an example by Locus_GraphHopper (Generates street name)
https://youtu.be/IObz_TeGSNs

2. When the Start Point IS NOT a Via Point (track without any Via Points) except final Finish Point.
https://youtu.be/lQHLIHwmt_E

I know this is complex even without pointing to many possible router settings as there are by walk by bike by mtb etc. 

Feel like I'm slightly losing the will to live.
Headache ?  You're ok...still alive  ;)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 20:10:53 by 0709 »
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Offline GusGF

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 23:48:34 »
Okay you are right there is a lot to learn and I feel like I've learned a few key points from you when planning routes. I'll be keeping the auto-calculate off for the time being until I feel ready to experiment with point and route.

Quote
These settings are for touristic cycling. Away from the track ?  + 36 m shows you the (warning) guiding line,  + 75 m out of track generates an audio WARNING alert,  + 100 m auto triggers autorecalculate ACTION. (if set)  ;)

So is this only available for cycling as I can't see different levels for walking?


Quote
Notice the guiding line from your position towards the nearest target trackpoint.  Now manually trigger a recalculation (Route Priority) Locus shows the navigation path toward target.  When located nearer to the finish is toward the last trackpoint.

I will experiment but I assume if I set recalculate to 'point' and convert the 'START' shape point to a Via  and I'm not yet on the planned route (e.g. the route I attached in prev post) and I turn on navigation early then will I be guided to the start?
 

Offline 0709

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 08:16:18 »
Quote
So is this only available for cycling as I can't see different levels for walking?
I present you the figures that a I do like personally and optimised for my main activity, cycling.
For hiking I would suggest try and test: 36m guiding line, 50 m out of track alert sound, 75 m autorecalculate. Not too low distances, as during a walk probably the gps receiver is not in the most favorouble position towards the satellites open sky view. Anyway to be optimalised for the kind of activity you do like the most personally.
Quote
I will experiment but I assume if I set recalculate to 'point' and convert the 'START' shape point to a Via  and I'm not yet on the planned route (e.g. the route I attached in prev post) and I turn on navigation early then will I be guided to the start?

Hmm..not exactly. (Unless you are indeed nearer to the start)
@ Navigation start by (any) recalculation trigger: Locus recalculates toward the nearest Via Point.
All next Via Points during a normal navigation session than are served in numeric order one by one.
See by autorecalculate mode NONE the guiding line lenght ! (line as the crow flies). 
That's is also why I do display that very helpfull distance circle tool.


Your example Roundtrip. (By Point Priority, as you ask)
Start navigate from out of track position, so a recalculate is triggered !
Start is promoted to be a Via Point and also the final Finish Point is by nature.
When you do start up navigate nearer to the Finish, your nearest Via Point than is the  "............"
Roger ? 

« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 08:30:05 by 0709 »
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Offline GusGF

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Re: Unable to follow track
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2020, 22:11:19 »
Well finally got out again yesterday and am glad to say I was able to navigate almost successfully. I say almost as something peculiar happened. On certain parts of the route (where there was a change in direction) the voice navigation attempted to send me 180 degrees in the wrong direction contrary to the on-screen navigation route. The route ahead, which I stuck to, was highlighted in blue and the part of the route which I'd covered was plain.
Any idea why voice navigation was trying to send me in the opposite direction to the on screen route ?