Author Topic: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)  (Read 87069 times)

Offline john_percy

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #120 on: July 22, 2016, 15:45:13 »
Quote
...with bunch of check-in options to tweak them,...each with lot of options
exactly +1 8)
+1
+1
-1
I really do not like so many options
 

Offline gynta

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #121 on: July 22, 2016, 15:54:55 »
Well, no need to toggle the checkboxes 10 times a day
...but IF I want - I can do it ;D

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #122 on: July 22, 2016, 17:12:58 »
-1
I really do not like so many options

OTOH, 1 option "food and drinks" in the current winter theme is the opposite extreme.
Perhaps a balanced number of themes and options - neither too many themes with too few options neither vice versa.
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
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Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile
 

Offline menion

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #123 on: July 22, 2016, 20:57:12 »
Hi guys,
I'm trying to keep this completely on Petr and because he is extreme minimalist, it ended with one checkbox in winter theme etc. (as I remember he did not want even a this one) :).

Anyway enjoy weekend, I've just published new Beta version mainly with some fixes. Because there is again a few more issues that needs fix (import of GPX, GC Offlinizer), I'll release new version at middle of next week, so few days to tune it!
Ideas, wishes, problems
Advanced topics, public discussion, sharing of knowledges, testing beta versions: you're here!
 

Offline gynta

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #124 on: July 22, 2016, 21:34:51 »
...and because he is extreme minimalist...
damn - that means, "Locus Map" is his worst project ;D ;D

Offline jusc

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #125 on: July 23, 2016, 12:17:46 »
Quote
...with bunch of check-in options to tweak them,...each with lot of options
exactly +1 8)
+1
+1
-1
I really do not like so many options
-1
I agree with John.
But everyone should create his own theme and can see how many work it is, to test all these feautures.  ;D
Regards J.
 

Offline voldapet

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #126 on: July 24, 2016, 21:39:54 »
Hi,
well I'm sorry but check-boxes are useless from my point of view and they can cause more harm than good. Current check-boxes exist in internal themes because:
- it's quite complicated to create one Hiking & Cycling theme because of offset of highlighted routes (more routes in one place)
- overcrowded city centre by icons because there wasn't any intelligent logic how to group the map icon

Mentioned Food & Drink check-box in CAR theme exists only because consistency how theme is changed in app. I'm sorry but I add more check-boxes only when I get direct order from menion. I have strong opinion on it.


@gynta
I've probably wrote it somewhere... We spent hours and hours haggling / arguing with menion about tnes of Locus features, settings, screens, etc. I see lot things in different way.  Unfortunately menion has always lot's of argument why is some setting important. He's the boss and I respect it...sometimes. Maybe is Locus my worst project but the question is how would Locus look like without my comments and complaints. Maybe would it be better ...who knows
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #127 on: July 25, 2016, 07:45:06 »
Hi,
well I'm sorry but check-boxes are useless from my point of view and they can cause more harm than good. Current check-boxes exist in internal themes because:
- it's quite complicated to create one Hiking & Cycling theme because of offset of highlighted routes (more routes in one place)
- overcrowded city centre by icons because there wasn't any intelligent logic how to group the map icon

Mentioned Food & Drink check-box in CAR theme exists only because consistency how theme is changed in app. I'm sorry but I add more check-boxes only when I get direct order from menion. I have strong opinion on it.


Quote
"Thank you for comments about names of themes. I'll discuss it with team - "Hike & Bike" / "Ski" could be ideal solution. BUT you gave me another idea - "General" theme. What about to remove City theme and create something between City and Hike & Bike. Menion gonna kill me but I like this idea. "

Hm, but it may lead to "one size fits all" extreme, if both theme and option numbers are minimized, especially in context of your idea of general theme combining hiking/bik theme and city theme. ( Unless it is meant as an extra theme and not as replacement )

As you have said, cities are icon crowded. It is natural to want a selective POI filtering.

For outdoor themes, such a filtering is less important. But OTOH there is challenging problem to display all OSM way features important to know for challenging routes. Like  track/path class,  track grade, surface, difficulty ( smoothness, MTB scale, SAC scale, ) trail visibility and along/over it also foot and bike routes. It is difficult to display all at the same time, even if OAM theme Elevate/Elements made a very good trial in that. It is hard to see other way but selective feature switching by the theme options.

Fortunately, there is external theme escape path, so there is no need to help Menion killing you.  :D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 09:20:17 by poutnikl »
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
When a user digs profiles up from the GitHub repositories,
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Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile
 

Offline tramp20

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #128 on: July 25, 2016, 13:53:39 »
Hi menion,
since the last 2-3 versions the notify icon for automatic backup disappears after ~5 seconds (free and pro).
Is this intended?
Before this the icon remains visible until I clear it.

This happens on two smartphones (5.1.1 and 4.2).
Sony Xperia Z1c   Android 10
Sony Xperia Z1c   Android 5.1.1
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2016, 08:27:17 »
I do not understand why the current internal road theme gave up the colour distinguishing of the road classes ( motorways, trunks, primaries, secondaries, tertiaries ) ?  It is quite an important info and I can see no gain in keeping them all similar.

You can see various OSMAnd themes for illustration, that often follow various road atlas conventions.

BTW, does/can a theme distinguish paid/unpaid sections of motorways ?( MapsForge libraries may not provide that.- OSM data contain paid flag for roads and toll points). Some OSMAnd themes use extra dotted line inside motorway line. It is quite important e.g. in France, where you can take either long way along free motorways ( Beziers to Clermond-Ferrand), or pay big money for it ( Mulhouse - Lyon - Avignon ). The router can distinguish that, but visual check is useful as a double measure..
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 08:33:09 by poutnikl »
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
When a user digs profiles up from the GitHub repositories,
they will be hopefully wrapped in some wiki knowledge....  :-)
Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile
 

Offline john_percy

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #130 on: July 26, 2016, 09:18:01 »
OpenAndroMaps maps tag toll sections of roads (not just motorways), and some third party themes (Elevate, Voluntary) show them. LoMaps and internal themes do not.

BTW, does/can a theme distinguish paid/unpaid sections of motorways ?( MapsForge libraries may not provide that.- OSM data contain paid flag for roads and toll points). Some OSMAnd themes use extra dotted line inside motorway line. It is quite important e.g. in France, where you can take either long way along free motorways ( Beziers to Clermond-Ferrand), or pay big money for it ( Mulhouse - Lyon - Avignon ). The router can distinguish that, but visual check is useful as a double measure..

Voluntary theme and OAM Great Britain map: toll roads shown by red-orange dots, and red-orange borders on motorways


Elevate theme and OAM Great Britain map: toll roads shown by orange dots

« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 09:25:23 by john_percy »
 

Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #131 on: July 26, 2016, 09:43:25 »
I agree fully with Poutnic on new internal themes. I used on off last few weeks but now other than to view city names more clearly with Road theme I have given up hope. Will stick with OAM.
 

Offline voldapet

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #132 on: July 26, 2016, 11:59:52 »
@poutnikl
I often think in Parero's principle 80:20. I really think that for 80% users are options in CAR/WINTER/CITY theme useless. I've performed a series of usability tests with Mapy.cz (czech leading map service) a couple years ago. The tests included also reviews of POI filtering. There was probably 8 groups of options (Restaurants, posts, bus stops,...) The tests show that users didn't click on these options or they thought that POIs are missing in the map.  Bellow is one real comment from participant:
"I can't see the bus stops, so why map does not contain bus stops"

In case that map is icon crowded than it should be solved by application not by the theme. For example using automatic grouping of icons (available in the beta). Lots of users understand the map as invariable "image" - even the themes are for them quite abstract.  We want to collect some stats how users switch themes and pois options. You can also test it - watch your wifes/friends how often they change the pois options and why they change it. 

Outdoors - I want to keep the hiking/cycling routes as simple as possible. Map has to be understable without legend and user has to be able to read map even if all hiking/cycling routes are switched on. I don't really want to create something like openmtbstyle -  https://openmtbmap.org/legend/mtb_highways_clas.png

Quote
I do not understand why the current internal road theme gave up the colour distinguishing of the road classes

Have you tried the latest beta, please. The car theme should be improved.

Toll roads - I thought about toll roads maybe three years ago. I was worried about coverage but it looks quite well now. I have no problem with this idea - although it's related with router, not with the map
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #133 on: July 26, 2016, 19:11:14 »
My experimental BRouter car profiles count with toll roads, toll booths or bridges.

I must check how much is usable UK voluntary theme in Czech area, as it seems well sophisticated. I am for now fond of UniGCCZ Czech specific theme, HiLo theme and Elevate them, all for non car scenario.

I have not remembered well  which OSMAnd themes and Locus themes/maps do use this toll info, so thanks for information.

I have found avoiding toll roads in France and Spain by Mapquest and BRouter routing highly reliable during June/July vacation. We noticed just 2 small mistakes and they bother were a driver error, not wrong routing.

OpenAndroMaps maps tag toll sections of roads (not just motorways), and some third party themes (Elevate, Voluntary) show them. LoMaps and internal themes do not.

Voluntary theme and OAM Great Britain map: toll roads shown by red-orange dots, and red-orange borders on motorways

Elevate theme and OAM Great Britain map: toll roads shown by orange dots.
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
When a user digs profiles up from the GitHub repositories,
they will be hopefully wrapped in some wiki knowledge....  :-)
Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [APP] - version 3.18.x (27. 6. 2016+)
« Reply #134 on: July 26, 2016, 20:00:55 »
@poutnikl  - I often think in Parero's principle 80:20. I really think that for 80% users are options in CAR/WINTER/CITY theme useless. ......................... We want to collect some stats how users switch themes and pois options. You can also test it - watch your wifes/friends how often they change the pois options and why they change it. 
I quite agree with your 80/20 approach, I seldom fit the 80, regardless the topic.  :) I change themes and options all the time.
I know personally just 1 other Locus user, I will ask him.  I have as well thought - as you mentioned - the POI filtering should be rather matter of the application then of the theme. I was also thinking about positive ( what to display ) and negative ( what to hide ) filtering approaches.

OTOH, filtering of map features may be better done in themes.

Quote
Outdoors - I want to keep the hiking/cycling routes as simple as possible. Map has to be understable without legend and user has to be able to read map even if all hiking/cycling routes are switched on. I don't really want to create something like openmtbstyle -  https://openmtbmap.org/legend/mtb_highways_clas.png

I see. I half agree half disagree with you. As there are needed both simple and advanced paper maps, there are needed both simple and advanced maps/themes. Making trade off between being simple and provide most of relevant info probably cannot lead to anything good.

Personally I am fine with eventually LoMaps hiking/bike themes kept simple, as advanced users can use advanced Elevate theme, eventually with OAM maps, e.g. the map of Alps. there is no need for doubling the effort. OAM elevate theme legend for completness

Near all paper maps do have legend, so legend IS needed, but it is always handy at the paper map side. Emaps rather sacrifice the easy legend availability, as managing handy access to it is problematic, of course.

Quote
Have you tried the latest beta, please. The car theme should be improved.

Toll roads - I thought about toll roads maybe three years ago. I was worried about coverage but it looks quite well now. I have no problem with this idea - although it's related with router, not with the map

Even if it does not look like that, I still consider myself as a Locus beginner, not having Locus in firm grip, so I rather postpone the fiddling with beta yet :-)  Playing with beta features requires solid experience how it should behave normally. For now, I am patient, looking forward to stable one.

For toll roads, Mapquest and my BRouter car profile routing were highly reliable in avoiding toll roads/booths during my recent vacation in Spain and France. The only errors were driver errors.

As I mentioned above, the toll topic is related to BOTH routers and maps. Either as a secondary real-time visual routing control, either just for the map browsing .
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 20:13:17 by poutnikl »
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki
When a user digs profiles up from the GitHub repositories,
they will be hopefully wrapped in some wiki knowledge....  :-)
Try also https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/wiki/Determining-optimal-bicycle-profile