Author Topic: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions  (Read 3486 times)

Offline Christian

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[Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« on: December 03, 2015, 19:36:17 »
Hi,
I would like to know the percentages of surface conditions of an existing track, i.e.
x% gravel
x% path
x% tarmac
a.s.o.

Questions are,
: where are the information stored. In vector maps?
: and should this be computed after or during creation of a track?

Before writing a feature request in help desk i would like to have some further information...

Christian
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 21:54:05 »
Just small side note: path is not a surface condition, but OSM highway class, similarly as track.

Yes, these informations are stored in vector maps. On the Android device, it is nicely visually displayed using OpenAndroMaps with Elevate Hiking style, where is provided also a good map feature legend, downloadable also as PDF.

OSMAnd internal offline routing engine uses these surface conditions for evaluation of optimal route. As LocusMap does not have it own local offline routing engine, it could use the vector data at least for displaying the route statistics. Brouter and GraphHopper offline engines use their own way related data files, so they can be used even for raster maps. 

As an alternative solution, e.g. for on-line computer route planning, you can use Brouter web.

If you have displayed the offered or selected route, e.g. Hiking route from Cortina d'Ampezzo to Tofana di Roses in italian Dolomite Mountains, you can review the data on Data tab in the left bottom corner of the screen. In the second column Dist is the length of the way segment, In the right verbose column - perhaps "behind the corner" - are way segment related tags, like way class, surface, tracktype, trail visibility, SAC scale, whatever is available in Brouter OSM based .RD5 grid files.

Note that the listed OSM way tags route_MTB_* and route_hiking_*  are not real OSM tags, but Brouter way pseudotags injected to its RD5 grid files ( similarly for cycle routes ), as Brouter profiles cannot test original OSM route relations.

When you are moving the mouse pointer over the particular line in DATA tab list, the respective way segment is highlighted on the map.

Or, you can download the data as CSV file at CSV link above the tabs, e.g. for later Excel data analysis.

Code: [Select]
elev. dist. $/km elev$ turn$ node$ initial$ WayTags
1269 171 2250 107 0 0 0 highway=unclassified route_mtb_lcn=yes
1290 170 2250 104 0 0 0 highway=unclassified oneway=yes route_mtb_lcn=yes
1305 232 10250 55 0 0 0 highway=primary lanes=2 route_mtb_lcn=yes
1561 2866 2250 1183 0 0 0 highway=tertiary
1814 1795 1370 1385 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=path
1934 753 1370 683 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=track tracktype=grade2
1931 70 1370 0 0 0 0 highway=track tracktype=grade2 route_mtb_lcn=yes
1985 802 1370 164 0 0 0 highway=track surface=compacted
2012 234 1370 135 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=path
2035 316 1370 93 0 0 0 highway=track surface=compacted
2063 152 1370 157 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=track
2066 118 1670 28 0 0 0 highway=track tracktype=grade3 sac_scale=mountain_hiking route_hiking_=yes
2073 47 1370 4 0 0 0 highway=path
2102 296 1670 138 0 0 0 highway=track tracktype=grade3 sac_scale=mountain_hiking route_hiking_=yes
2548 2323 1720 2562 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=path sac_scale=mountain_hiking route_hiking_=yes
2597 330 1870 253 0 0 0 highway=path sac_scale=mountain_hiking trail_visibility=good
2998 1757 1370 2226 0 0 0 reversedirection=yes highway=path
3146 601 1370 1177 0 0 0 highway=foot


As an interesting option, you can create for yourself analytic Brouter profiles, that would be used for such calculations. For a pre-given route anchored by enough viapoints, one can have e.g. Grass profile, that would give costfactor 1.0 to anything but to grass. Grass would be penalized by costfactor 2.0.After the Brouter web analysis, you would get for 0% of grass Cost/length ratio 1.0, for 100% grass cost/length ratio 2.0. Similarly for other surfaces.

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2015, 18:35:05 »
Ahoj!
Thank you for your explanation and the links. I checked the legend in locus docs and the wiki in OSM also.
BRouter web is an amazing tool i use often. Now i had a look into data (data tab) as you suggested and get a lot of information i never noticed - the funny get-params in URL also ;)
Even if there are missed surface tags a raw statistic about the percentage of surface should be possible. Correspondendig to the common legends (LoMaps, OSM, ...) we can differentiate between
: asphalt (->Motorway, Highway, 1.-3.class, Service road, Minor, unclassified roads)
: paved tracks
: unpaved tracks (->gravel, hard and soft materials, soil, grass, Path)
without further differentiation for the first step. (Description and terms are taken from Locus docs. Thanks to Michal)
It should be easy for Menion to implement this.

Additionally further values in statistics would be nice: SAC for hiking, MTB scale. Later...

The main idea is to have a tool to compare tracks by surface conditions after or during track creation and check that created tracks are in compliance with my wishes (no steps or unpaved tracks for road bikes tours, less asphalt for hiking / trailrunning, ...)

Did i forget something?
Is anybody interested in features for Locus like this? Additional ideas?

Comments are welcome.
Christian
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2015, 21:40:31 »
Alternative approach is just to create specialized Brouter profiles, reflecting particular preferences.Than you need not to analyze it.

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2015, 22:37:56 »
I want to have it in Locus ;)
 

Offline john_percy

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2015, 23:25:15 »
You could still have it in Locus because Brouter integrates very well with Locus.
 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 08:54:39 »
I want to have it in Locus ;)

You say by other words, your final goal is not watching the data, but having the route according your preferences. And you can have it, being limited by your ability to express your preferences. This does not try to distract you from your idea, but just making you being aware about available possibilities.

Let suppose your preferences take equal 1 km of asphalt and 3 km of grass, 1 km of ground and 1.333 km of grass. IF expressed in profile evaluation, than it would prefer 8 km detour grass path winding through meadows  to a forest short cut via 2 km asphalt track  and 3 km ground path. As "8 km is shorter than 10 km".

The profile advantage is,  it is not limited to 1-2 parameters, that could be reviewed visually, supposed the map contains them.

Aside of surface, profiles can evaluate many other parameters simultaneously, like  track versus path, track/path grades, trail visibility, SAC/MTB rating, Smoothness ( low one repulses cars even if allowed ), vehicle allowance, route slope ( not OSM tagged, but BRouter is elevation aware ), path winding..  Cars prefer straight ways, but for hikers, straight paths may be boring.

Visually, same as in a profile, your preferences for various parameters may be independent or in relations. E.g. ground/grass preference ratio may be lower for tracks than for paths, as ground tracks are often unpleasantly damage by heavy machinery riding wet plastic soil.

Finally, you have always option of the final check and eventually to make a tweak, using viapoints or nogo area, based on the visual big picture.

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 16:51:36 »
You lead me to Brouter (profiles). I would like to stay with Locus. But thank you for your efforts. I will come back when i'm ready for custom profiles in Brouter.
 

Offline john_percy

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 23:15:39 »
@Christian: You write that you have used BRouter web. Have you used BRouter as a navigation engine in Locus? I really think it will do what you want -- and in Locus, as you ask?

a) Planning a route with BRouter
b) About planning a route
c) BRouter offline
d) Poutnikl's collection of BRouter profiles

A more complex but more powerful method of using BRouter and also explained here

PS I've had to use Google shortener to get the links to show properly with Tapatalk
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 11:58:29 by john_percy »
 

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2015, 20:17:39 »
Back from trail i found... heavy support for BRouter :) Thanx John, i use BRouter online and offline also - from the beginning.
My usage in Locus is - sometimes:
: using "Add new route&Measure" feature and create a track (with BRouter as engine) along the Waymarked Trails or combining Waymarked Trails. It's a mix of visual alignment and using my memories of the part of the landscape. But no navigation.
: using _existing_ / downloaded tracks

All i want to know is how many percent are paved / unpaved...
Thats all. No BRouter App and Quick Points are needed in this case.

 

Offline poutnikl

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2015, 21:40:10 »
All i want to know is how many percent are paved / unpaved...
Thats all. No BRouter App and Quick Points are needed in this case.

Until available in Locus, you can calculate it in Brouter web by this profile
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/master/Paved.brf

For fully not paved ways is cost = length x 1000
For fully       paved ways is cost = length x 2000

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 18:12:31 »
Thank you for this template. I will check it.

Feature request is here.
If anybody interested in please vote.
 

Offline Christian

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Re: [Q] Percentages of surface conditions
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 10:42:42 »
Thanx to poutnikl for leading me to BRouter web and the csv data. I did some advanced Excel computations with this and i'm happy to get my desired values and additionally a lot of more information useful for mountainbikers,  trailrunners and others as mentioned above by poutnikl. It's really interesting stuff...
So i will continue to develop my sheet a little bit while waiting for the implementation of my feature request.