Access Blocked while using OSM Classic

Started by oiorokko, October 04, 2011, 22:26:12

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oiorokko

October 04, 2011, 22:26:12 Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 22:35:34 by oiorokko
Some of the users and I have troubles viewing online maps (OSM Classic). "Access Blocked. We suspect this client is downloading maps in an unauthorised manner.."

This appears while trying to view the last two zoom levels (17 and 18). It appeared after the last or before the last update.

What could be the problem.

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Menion

#1
October 04, 2011, 22:35:10 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
hmm nice ... from irc.openstreetmaps.org, I went to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Blocked_applications .. Locus in list, ach ... what the ..
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oiorokko

#2
October 04, 2011, 22:41:25 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
That is kind-of bad, I believe. Is there anything You can do?
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Menion

#3
October 04, 2011, 22:43:10 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
yes, I'll write to some OSM admin. Hope that someone cracked locus and download with this version more then is limit ...
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Menion

#4
October 04, 2011, 23:03:02 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
I don't know how this can be possible ...

http://grant.dev.openstreetmap.org/tmp/ ... ek-20k.txt

but locus is still in top ten downloaders from osm server. So since next version downloading from base osm server will be removed. this is not a problem. For downloading are much better servers. Mainly MapQuest
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Menion

#5
October 05, 2011, 08:37:02 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
fine, donation to OSM sended http://donate.openstreetmap.org/comments/, downloading OSM classic disabled, now contact someone from admins ...
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jusc

#6
October 05, 2011, 12:56:21 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
That is discussed in the German OSM forum already since yesterday.
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=13959

Most of them are against using Mobac, Locus, Oruxmap and all other "tools" to view and download tiles from the OSM tile servers, because OSM is not a map but a geo database.
Regards J.
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Menion

#7
October 05, 2011, 13:36:12 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
thanks jusc. It's interesting that with mobac author, they discuss in just normal way. When someone from OSM discuss with me, it's usually with angry tone. Usually because Locus is also paid app and mobac no. Never mind, as I wrote before. I disabled direct downloading from OSM Classic. No other choice.

I was also (about a month ago) trying to set own tile server, but current server I use for vector map generating and rendering is not enough powerful for this task. I have to think about it a little and maybe I'll buy for locus users some more powerful tile server ...
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Khaytsus

#8
October 05, 2011, 14:17:04 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
Well, that sucks, but sounds like nothing you can do Menion.  I'd have to guess that it's an indication of how widely used Locus is, and even with the current restrictions (which IMO weren't very restrictive) the sheer number of users who might be grabbing tiles at any time are going to upset the OSM folks.  Only thing I could think of is further restricting Locus, perhaps X number of tiles per day and X number of tiles at once.  Setting up your own tile server would be a pretty big drain, it'd require a dedicated server, fast connection, and lots of bandwidth.  

In one way I see their point, they're probably always on the lookout for heavy access against their server and blocking anything which seems to be scraping it, but IMO they're missing part of the point in that they would want their maps to be widely used.  I've always had a bit of a sour taste from OSM and have always had more issues getting reliable or reasonably fast data back from it from various clients.  Even their website is slow, regardless of their restrictions.  I tried to draw a new bike path here once and i completely gave up on it, it took forever and the tools were horrible.

Sadly I have downloaded (over a few weeks of time) my town and a few I geocache in, and wouldn't want to re-download all of that from Mapquest or other sources.  I assume the database data already in place will continue to work?
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Khaytsus

#9
October 05, 2011, 18:41:50 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
As I thought about this more today, it occurred to me that maybe there is some compromise that can be made to get OSM to accept Locus.  Maybe OSM won't compromise, dunno..

First part is having two separate user agents in Locus, one for the online loading of maps the other for downloading of maps.  This is not to evade OSM filters; it would be communicated to them and agreement made.  The point being to ultimately have all "online" access unblocked, but give them the ability to block "downloads" in the future if they feel the need.

Second, greater restrictions on per-source tiles.  Maybe 2000 a day from a given source, such as any OSM, or any Mapquest.  I think this needs to be done regardless because other map providers may also feel Locus users are downloading too much.  Again, multiplied by the number of users, this number might not be sufficient, it might be 500, or it might be 5000, I don't know.  Perhaps with greater restrictions, OSM will open up "download" Tile access again.

Regardless, I hope they open up "online" access.  As per the original post it does look like anything lower than 17 works okay, and maybe that's sufficient for most things.  But we don't want them to limit things further, etc..
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jusc

#10
October 05, 2011, 20:23:49 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
Quote from: "menion"I don't know how this can be possible ...

http://grant.dev.openstreetmap.org/tmp/ ... ek-20k.txt

but locus is still in top ten downloaders from osm server. So since next version downloading from base osm server will be removed. this is not a problem. For downloading are much better servers. Mainly MapQuest

I wonder that I can find Locus only 22 times?


Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Regards J.
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Menion

#11
October 05, 2011, 20:56:02 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
and what numbers are you expecting? :) older version are unfortunately faked as firefox ...
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jusc

#12
October 05, 2011, 21:51:39 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
That has been the good old time. :-)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
Regards J.
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Menion

#13
October 06, 2011, 05:30:48 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
Yes, old good times with empty locus(@)asamm.cz inbox and no worries :D
- Official help (ideas, questions, problems): help.locusmap.eu
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jusc

#14
October 06, 2011, 18:00:30 Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by Guest
from the German forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopi ... 98#p194498

translation from Google:

I allow myself a short time from the forum and TALK-DE to summarize:

Tiles servers are slow because the problem:
Number of connections is too high for universities (current issue)
Traffic and workload continues to increase (even more)

therefore delivery of the tiles had to be throttled (recognition of scrapers not reliably possible) so that left us just enough performance for mappers still remains. This is also partly affected services of other websites. Otherwise would, however, already hosting OSM risk.

Proposed solutions are:
Use of alternative services by Tiles Apps (Mapquest, Cloud Made, ...)
Build-own-Tiles App servers by operators to buy, or services
- It is suggested that documentation of Mapnik Wiki, PostGIS, ... to improve
- Kai has been building an out-of-the-box packages for Ubuntu Server
Apps donations by vendors
- Problem of overburdened hardware of the universities is not so well solved
- Some (such as Frederik, Firefishy ,...) OSM not see as a "service", but responsible only for the purpose of the project, namely to create a free world map. Draw maps and performant this can deploy to / should we not also accept donations
- And can even be a "premium" subscription would pay for the vendors so they can sustain the heavy load
Apps should switch to offline rendering of vector data
- There are of us still do not like simple technique, how to use finished tiles.

Has not anyone of you have already contacted the authors of the other tools included? Who would be so kind to address the times?
Regards J.
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