Messages

And recompute .... Try to long-click on big blue "choose source" icon in bottom left

@balloni55 - thank you! I must have missed that comment. Not as intuitive as menu item, but good enough for me now I know the secret.

*** BETA version 3.25.5.3 *** @zhaelon: <snip> a) I'm surprised that more people does not want

+1

3.25.5.3 - wow excellent NOGO functionality.

1) I still observe when a NOGO is deleted the track segment is not recomputed. See also my point #3.

2) I like the new item description "Part <N> of plan" when track segment is selected. However I think there is potential confusion between track point and track segment (part N). For example if I tap track segment, popup says multiple items, I tap "Part 1 of plan" but then next popup says "Trackpoint". So user is confused - did I just select a track point or part 1? And what is the difference? Is there a track point? Tap anywhere along a track segment/ part and you get the same point. Maybe replace "Trackpoint" popup with "Part <N>"?

3) I still can't force manual recompute of a track segment or whole route. How do you suggest I recompute track if I chose a different profile?

I would really like to use the new Route Planner instead of external BRouter method - http://docs.locusmap.eu/doku.php?id=manual:user_guide:tracks:planning:brouter but until manual recompute after selection of BRouter profile is possible then it is still too many taps. I still suggest two menu items: A) Trackpoint popup > Recompute, and B) Tools menu > Recompute all.

4) If I tap 10mm away from a Nav point along track, I want to display "Trackpoint" popup, but I never get option, the Nav point pop is always displayed. Shouldn't a "Selected items" listing <Nav point> and "Part <N>" be displayed?

5) "Selected items" popup should be renamed "Select an item".

6) Existing track > Route Planner > Tools > Save Plan. I have now saved this plan as a copy of original track. How do I modify existing track, not saving a copy? If I save with same name, I get two tracks (existing/ new) with same name.

7) Existing track > Route Planner > modify, for example add Shaping point > Back button > Route Planner > Shaping point is lost. Is this a bug?

Nevertheless, it would be great for motorcycle trip planning if there was an option to show POI of a certain group (for example gas stations) *along the route* (say +- n km/mi, optional value). That should not be a dynamic option but a 'display GROUP (select) along the current route' button, which helps identify a POI (or multiple) to add as via point (or mark as 'visible') and then hide everything else again.

@zhaelon - interesting post. Your suggestion above is not quite the same as my existing help topic but you still may like to vote for it. Currently 12 votes.

Shaping points are not stored in metadata of saved track as I mentioned earlier.<snip> Will be fixed in next version.

@menion - can you clarify your quote - Shaping points are not saved in Locus internal database track metadata or external GPX file metadata? In my testing 3.25.5.2 Shaping points are saved to the internal database track metadata.

<snip> Will be fixed in next version.

What will be fixed?  My interpretation is most users in this forum topic would like Shaping points preserved.

Export of shaping points into GPX is currently not implemented. Still not sure, if this is needed at all ... we will see

Export of shaping points into GPX (Locus V1.1) would allow full round-tripping of saved Locus-created route.

With the Route Planner it is faster to add a Shaping point than a Via point (naturally). Most times I don't need any Via points. BRouter automatically creates all Navigation points. If I find I want to steer the route along some different road then I would simply add Shaping points as necessary. But I do want to be able to edit that track later (not just restoring the route plan) and have any existing Shaping points restored for further editing.

1.4.9 ja wirklich?

Shift relaod?

@abrensch - seltsame Verzögerung aber jetzt fixiert, danke

@Taras - I'm certainly not fixed on the term "Shaping" point. It is more meaningful & appeared on the face of it to be a more widely used term than "Definition" point. You & @0709 (& like the idea) observe a Shaping point is simply a silent, unnamed, unannounced Via point. So maybe this 3rd type of point doesn't even need a separate name? It's just an unnamed Via point? That could solve the next point...

@Menion - I'm strongly in support of @zossebart (also @matmas I think) that unnamed Via/ Shaping points are preserved in the metadata when the route plan is saved to a track. @0709 has indicated these silent Via points are then preserved on an export/ import GPX round-trip.

Hmm, isn't what I wrote to matmas here http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=5827.msg48985#msg48985 good enough reason? Maybe I'm only one who find this concept useful?

A useful concept for me too.

It seems that Shaping points behave like unnamed Via points? Although Via points inside a track can be exported & correctly restored on import. Could a Shaping point be treated like an unnamed Via point for export/ import?

1.4.9? neueste Version ist 1.4.8?

Version 1.4.9 ist wohl noch nicht auf dem Google Play, sondern nur auf http://brouter.de/brouter/revisions.html

1.4.9 ja wirklich?

[Route]

The current system uses three kinds of points to define a "Route"

1) Shaping/Destination Points
2) Via Points
3) Navigation Points

Why isn't the most basic of these three points simply called a "Route Point"? Or "Routing Point"?

Would it not be clear that you define a Route using Route/Routing Points? (Instead of Shaping or Destination.)

@Taras - that's the discussion we are now having. Destination Points are a beta-only feature. No documentation/ manual yet so perfect time to get best outcome. For me, all 3 types of points are routing points - they are all used to influence the path of the route. If I do a search for "garmin Shaping Point definition" I find there is already widely recognized terminology so why invent yet another term. It appears this Garmin topic is quite relevant to the Locus situation.

[@Andrew Heard]

@Andrew Heard
nono posts are fine and really useful. I just don't like complicated responding when I wants to include also "quote" on certain part of text ... like you did in your last post. How are you doing it? Manually by copy & paste of texts like "[/quote author=menion link=topic=5827.msg48978#msg48978 date=1506283562]" and edit etc? It is really long process for longer texts ...

@menion - yes - I manually (tediously) copy & multiple paste/ edit the quote; is probably only an issue when replying to multiple points/ issues at once. Happy if you can suggest a better alternative?

3. it is possible that communication failed, but in this case there should be some orange toast with error message. Anyway if communication is interrupted, system should terminate it automatically after a while. Slowing of Locus was maybe side effect of one serious problem I found and solved a week ago, so let me know if it will be better in new Beta version(s).

There was no orange toast error, and certainly yesterday with hour of intensive route planner testing for my reply I didn't have a single problem (slow CPU or straight line or other BRouter failure) so I think "one serious problem" was fixed! Well done.

Hab' die Version 1.4.9 hochgeladen: http://brouter.de/brouter/revisions.html

1.4.9? neueste Version ist 1.4.8?

Einer wäre dass Menion wie angedeutet eine Ergänzung zu "expliziten Sperr-Zonen" released (was er noch nicht hat) - dazu ist ein Bugfix in brouter 1.4.9

was er noch nicht hat? Locus beta V3.25.5.2 verwendet BRouter NOGO API

[@Andrew Heard]

@Andrew Heard:
You always write so looong posts, best to number paragraphs hmm? ( edited ).

My QA background. I can make them shorter - report less issues, report with less detail. But I hope the feedback is useful. Sorry for another looong post

3. unable to simulate, does it happen to you always? Is this profile working for you at all?

Profile is 100% reliable with external BRouter method, 99% reliable with beta Route Planner. Problems only after intensive QA testing of Route Planner. No problems today. Is it possible communication with BRouter may silently fail & Locus reverts to straight line track segment? I can't reproduce. A few weeks ago I wrote Locus getting slower & slower - does Locus create a new thread for each BRouter operation? If a thread never completes, will subsequent threads also fail/ block, and could this explain CPU load getting higher & higher?

5. does it make sense to change trackpoint to via point?

It prevents the router from moving the track to some other road if the whole track is recomputed. It appears there are all special (unnecessary) rules for which point can be converted to another type of point.

6. About red ... they belong to older system, but I believe, they are still very very useful

thanks, finally understood

7. hmm you cannot get here popup for trackpoint because you tapped on place where are three tracks,

now understood - to me these 3 "tracks" are just 3 overlapping track "segments" of the same current Router Planner track. The to/ from names <A> & <B> are meaningless to the user, and maybe the term "Track" could be "Part" or "Segment"? Examples:

7. ...If you choose track from list, it should offer trackpoint-popup, does it happen?

yes

8. delete a NOGO - should this be undoable?

>Why do we need shaping point and via point
@   matmas - for me a shaping point can be considered an unnamed via point. The UI for shaping points is faster.

Published new BRouter release 1.4.9  -  may not be in Google Play yet.

Wow - intriguing features, although I don't know what they mean. I don't see any discussion in the Google Group, not that there has been in past. So is there any blog post that discusses these features for general interest or does the budding profile author just examine the new BRouter profiles for clues? Does this imply current profiles (internal Locus BRouter and Libor's profiles) could be improved to take advantage of any of these new features?

Good idea. I think English speaking users would understand the meaning of a "Shaping" point more readily than a "Definition" point. Also less characters. Then the art of translation.

This is, only a very small % of user's tracks will have more than one segment+profile combination.

I have frequently had to change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. Sometimes I

@John_Percy I also sometimes change profiles during route planning where the map is imperfect. But my gut feeling is that the average user would not be aware of this feature. Operation should be most intuitive for the common use-case but flexibility available that Locus is legendary for. If the user chooses to perform a full/ manual recalculation, each segment would be recomputed with its associated profile. This implies (if it is not already done) each route segment profile metadata needs to be saved/ restored.

If I delete a NOGO point how do I force the route (segment) to be recomputed? The only workaround I can see is to modify a point. Deleting a NOGO should force a recompute just like deleting or modifying any other point.

@menion
1. the route planner gets better & better. I note the via/ navigation/ definition point icons are now a little larger, easier to tell apart. For me they are the optimum size. This sort-of new concept definition point is good but I think the actual name "definition" is long and cumbersome. I can't think of a better one, maybe others can. The purpose of Via and Navigation points are fairly intuitive but a better name may help describe a Definition point?

2. In this 1st video I think the Route Planner is undoing 2 steps instead of just the last one. I add a 1st point, then a second/ final point, all good. Now I move the 1st point to another location. Still good. Now though I tap undo, and would expect the 1st point just to move back, but observe that the 2nd is also deleted.
https://youtu.be/tEmP8YMVygw

3. In this 2nd video, which is just the same route in the Route Planner, it seems Locus has forgotten the BRouter profile. The profile, unchanged from the 1st video, is set to Libor's Tertiaries, but when I add the next definition point a straight line is drawn by mistake instead of following the road.
https://youtu.be/eLLmdtoEbFc

4. Previously when I use the Route Planner for an existing out-and-back or loop recorded track the route was recomputed and I ended up with all of the loop truncated - zero length track. I notice this has now been fixed, the route is preserved; thanks. However I observe an orange msgbox "Distance between points is too short". Is this helpful?

5. Tap on a "track point" - popup menu allows change to a blue Navigation point or a green Definition point. Why no option to change to a Via point? Tap on a Definition point and it can only be changed to a blue Via point. Maybe there is a good programming reason, but for consistency why not allow any point to be converted to any other point?

6. Could either the Navigation or Via point be a color other than blue? And why are there a few smaller red track point icons in the route? I guess these are Track points but do they serve any purpose because I can tap anywhere in the track to (sometimes) edit the closest track point. The red is very hard to see against a magenta route so maybe there is a better choice of color here too?

7. In this 3rd video, I modified a simple out-and-back recorded track to force partial loop. When I tap on the track I get this popup menu of irrelevant options; and no option to choose a track point, or convert to another type of point. When the track is green (in background of popup menu), the little black direction arrows are visible inside the track, but with the magenta route color the direction arrows are impossible to see.
https://youtu.be/uKPaoQIQPG4