Messages

Hello Tommi

Lets discuss it further in this thread to keep this one clean.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.new;topicseen#new

Thanks

Hello Menion

Sometimes the problem solution is easy, if you know it ;-).

Thanks

Hello

Hopefully Menion you do not mean, that you want to replace the "old" guiding along a track with the new "Navigation generator"?!
Because this means we have to live with navigation mode and nasty magnetic behavior and no turning map (compass).
Than Locus would be dead for offroad navigation.

Bye

Hello

Track record panel is displayed because I record a track. Than I reached the point from where I need navigation with my prepared track. When I click on the track to get the "Track options" panel, to start the navigation I get this:



So I have to stop recording, begin navigation and than start a new recording. Thats not so nice.

Hello

Is it normal behavior (current beta) that I cannot start navigation during an active recording?
If the navigation is started first, I can start recording afterwards.
Is it because the UI cannot show "track options" and "recording options" at the same time?

Can it be changed?

Thanks

Hello Guys

Whats new to navigation over the last beta versions?

Today I did a navigation route with Mapquest and the annoying "you reached your destination" after each single segment is there again. I thought Menion removed that. Now its there again.

Is the timeout for the display activation changed meanwhile, so that on follow up notifications the display is still activated even for the last one?

What is the plan about the wish to remove and add navigation notification manually?

Thanks

Bye

Hi

I took openandromaps vector map:
http://www.openandromaps.org/downloads/deutschland

And than I use MTB theme which is based on openmtbmaps:
http://www.openandromaps.org/kartenlegende/andromaps_mtb

Than use hillshading with this data:
http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/Eurasia/

That works perfect for me for mountainbiking.

@jusc: Why beeing disapointed?

Hello Willy

Thanks for your test.
I've looked to your pdf, not in detail, but I think you experienced the same like I did in my test.
Newest version, planned track on MTB trails.
Shortest distances possible:

To much information.
Modified distances until first important notifications disappears:


To compare: Rerouted track with MapQuest (by foot):


To be honest: I think it is simple not possible to get good results without taking the map data into account - period.

So in my opinion Locus should go on with Routing function as followed:
1. Manual instruction editor (delete, create and also customized notifications (TTS))
2. Offroad navigation modus without to much stickyness and with compass map orientation.
3. Automatic rerouting of GPX tracks with routing providers (Mapquest...)

Thanks

Hello All

To 1. I'm corious about the Waypoint generator and I'm really looking forward to test it. For all tests, I'm your man.
        So I tested bikeroutetoaster for 1min. It does not even know the first path in the forest 

To 2. Is the walking modus of the navigation module also "magnetic"?
          Yes, we need the waypoint guiding messenger. Adding and deleting notification waypoints and TTS ability of waypoints will help alot.

I use a Sony Xperia Neo. It uses also Glonass satellites and is even compared to some garmins relativly accurate. The compass is also not so bad. If I'm standing on a Y crossing, I can turn the handle bar and can see on the map where to go, thats possible.

I also rerouted my track from yesterday with Mapquest within Locus. Menion removed the useless notification on the connection between the segments and does not even mentoined it  .
The result is not so bad. The track is accurate on the path, the notifications are dependend to the map data (no useless direction changes when the path makes a curve) and the ability to delete single notifications is already there.
No magnetic (smallest possible) behavior, compass moving map, adding TTS waypoints manual and I think we would have 90%.
Optimization of display On/Off should also be possible in short term.

Thanks

Bye

Hello Tommi

Thanks for answering me, and special thanks for reading my long post.
First of all I want to say, that the guiding feature of Locus and its other abilities (Display on/off, vector maps, MTB themes...) is currently the best in market.
To make it even better we have to discuss what we really need. And this is something, what I do not understand about your approach.

If we talk about the "non hard core" users, the navigation ends up on ways of the category "Waldautobahnen", forest highways.
For these users you do not have to find an algorithm to make notifications out of a track (angle, distance...), but you should use also the map information itself. For this category the routing tools are working better than all possible algorithm. You have also not the problem with sticking, because the track is "planned" directly on the map data. You solve the problem of how to handle 90° turns, without the need of an notification, because the way just makes a turn. Remember https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/topics/difference_between_guiding_and_navigation
So for this we need a possibility to "translate" a GPX track into a calculated route with using the map data, which exists.
This means Locus needs better routing calculation suppliers (not only A to B, but along a track), or Locus needs an own routing engine.
The current function of planning with Locus is not so bad, if Menion eliminates the useless notification on the connection point of two following segments. See picture "test7" in the link above ("Go east on unnamed road").

For the "hard core" users, the routing with map data (small paths) does not work right now (see my link).
For that problem we need a short term solution. Therefore your algorithm could be helpful, but than we need it without sticking, with moving map and so on. So in the end we need old guiding behavior with a better algorithm using TTS and the opportunity to get additional notification, when your off the track (https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/topics/choose_notify_when_switching_to_another_point_and_notify_when_too_far_away_from_track_at_the_same_time).
To solve the problem of 90° direction changes on a way and the problem of going straight but changing ways we need manual notifications (https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/topics/text_to_speech_reading_waypoints).
For a long term solution we need navigation calculation with map data also for small paths.

To sum it up: Trying to do navigation without using the existing map routing data does not make sense for long term. For short term working on a better algorithm to make navigation without map information is senseless combined with car navigation behavior.

Proposal:
1. New, better (your) algorithm with old guiding + off the track notification + manual TTS readed waypoints.
2. Optimization of notifications when planning tracks with navigation in Locus (No "Go east on unnamed road")
3. Better routing of the external services on small paths or an own routing engine for Locus

I'm looking forward to see how this will develop and I like to discuss about the right way to go.

Thanks

Bye

PS.: Minimum distance between turns is about 15-20m

Hallo All

I did a test with the new guiding navigation feature this afternoon and it was not very good. To be precise it was so bad, that I changed back to "normal" guiding because otherwise I maybe did not find the way out of the forest again.
I did the test in an unknown area for me on very small paths with a mountainbike. The track had several crossings within itself. See here:

I planned the track on the computer with not many points, what means, that the track is often besides the real way. See here for example:

Why I did that? I recognized earlier this week that the new navigation test routine simplifies tracks before it gives them the voice notifications. See what I mean:
Original track with a lot of points (recorded track):

Track now with notifications text:high:

too much notifications, not feasable.

Track with text:medium:

here now ok, but:

no notifications on real crossings.

Back to my test today......So I decided not to do to much points, because otherwise I have to trust the simplification algorithm which I don't want, see pictures above.
This leads to the following problems:
1. When I start the navigation, it starts in "car" mode. This mode does not only mean, that I get the notifications which were "calculated", it also means that my "GPS position" sticks to the track. As long as I am not too far away from the track, I do not see my real position. That means if the track is besides the way I'm also besides the way. And if there is a crossing and I could not see were I am in real, I do not know where to go.
2. The map orientation with the compass is also locked somehow in "car" mode. In normal guiding mode I can move my handle bar around to see where exacly the track is going to. In "car" mode the map is not moving.
3. The 50m notification is far to late. You often hear the 50m notification, when you have to go right immediately.
4. If your off the track (I set 50m with three beeps), the following happens:

I'm coming from the right and followed wrong the red arrows. I get three beeps from the first red arrow on, but because of the sticking to the track, I did not see on the map, why I'm wrong. At the red point I can see on the map, that I took the wrong way and there is a line which should lead me to the blue point. Meanwhile I got a lot of beeps. So I go back in opposite to the red arrows (beep, beep, beep) and I'm on the track again (beep, beep, beep). I'm on the right track now, but I get beeps. And I get beeps until I reached the blue point.
5. The automatic display activation is activated from an upcoming notification. If after that notification, the next notification follows right away (within the display timeout) the timeout is not resetted. So the display goes off although there is the next upcoming notification.
6. The display goes off, although I'm beside the track (beep, beep, beep) and I'm trying to get back on track.

To sum it up:
I have to turn at 50m notifications (to late), on crossings where I cannot see where I am (sticked to the track), where I cannot see where to go (no compass movement of map) and when I'm on track,  I hear beeps (sticking) and after recognizing that I'm wrong I cannot see where to go (display is off) and after finding the right way again, I hear beeps further on and I miss the next turn because the display is off (timeout).

Proposal:
1. No sticking. Position behavior like in the old guiding mode.
2. Compass moving map, like in the old guiding mode.
3. 50m notification earlier
4. When your off the track, always pointing back to the nearest point and not the next notification point
5. Reset of display timeout with each single notification
6. Blocking of display off, when away from the track

Thanks

Good night

Hallo Christian

Ich benutze Locus Pro Version 2.15.1.
Unter Einstellungen->Allgemein->Bildschirm(de)aktivierung musst du aktivieren auf AN setzen.
Dann habe ich bei allen Optionen außer "Ein.- bzw. Ausschalten via Näherungssensor" einen Haken gesetzt.
Dann geht das Display an bei:
1. Wegpunkten, die du in Locus gesetzt hast -> nicht dein Problem
2. ...bei Hinweisen am Track -> das brauchst du! Damit geht das Display an, wenn dem Algorithmus folgend die Winkel zwischen einem Trackpunkt und dem nächsten so groß sind, dass es ein Abbiegen bedeutet. Kurzum, wenn du rechts oder links musst.
3. Bei Navigationanweisungen: Das brauchst du in der aktuellen Beta Version 2.14.1.11, in der es möglich ist, auf einem GPX Track Navianweisungen generieren zu lassen, die dann wie eine Auto Navigation auch mit Pfeilanweisungen abgearbeitet werden.

Ich bin mir nicht sicher, aber vielleicht solltest du unter Einstellungen->Allgemein-> auch noch "Lock Screen verhindern" aktivieren.
Ich habe nicht ausprobiert, ob die Bildschirmaktivierung ohne diese Option funktioniert.

Gruß

[edit]

Hello Christian

Are you German? Maybe I can help in german, language barrier, you know.
For me it is working.


edit
Answers moved to german board...
-> http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3377.0
- gynta

Hi Willy

Yes, its difficult to decide between tts sound and beep.
In the time before Locus had the feature of turning on the display automatically, voice is better, because you get the information where to go, and if its not clear where to go, you can switch on the display to see where to go. In reality this ends with switching the display on with each notification because most crossings in the forest are complicated or you are to fast to hear what the lady wants to tell you.
After introducing automatic display on, you only need a beep to know something happens and than you can look on the map to get all information. I think seeing the way to go on the map will always be the best solution for offroad navigation. This is the big difference to car/street navigation where you can go after the voice commands, but even there the map helps alot.
So in the end I would like to have all opportunites.

Thanks

Bye

Hello Guys

I made a 22km bike track just to test guiding navigation and drove it this evening. I had to use "TEXT:high" setup because otherwise some notifications even on 90° crossings are missed.
Like I understand the posting of Menion it is quite the same as guiding with TTS but with a different algorithm.
I think, that the new algorithm seemed to be a little bit more precise, so I would like to use it. But I want to use it also without voice notification but with a beep as notification.
I think in the end guiding and navigation will melt together, but that means, that navigation needs the same notification opportunities like the old guiding.
A next step would be to have the opportunity to add navigation notifications manually. This is sometimes needed because we know that to go straight from a huge way to a small path is a problem for navigation. See here https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/topics/text_to_speech_reading_waypoints

Also display on/off on notification works fine, but I would like to see automatic display off also. See https://getsatisfaction.com/locus/topics/automatic_display_off_after_reaching_next_trackpoint_xm

Its nice to see, that Locus is getting better and better each week.

Thanks