Locus Map - forum

Support => Troubles & Questions => Topic started by: Wole on August 04, 2022, 14:19:22

Title: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 04, 2022, 14:19:22
I would like to connect a temperature sensor to Locus via bluetooth. Can anyone give me tips on available sensors?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on August 09, 2022, 15:01:01
Hi Wole,
because I was not able to find any "standard" that should be used by all thermo sensors, I've picked one and created support directly for this one. So currently supported is "Thermometer WS07" (for example here (https://www.ebay.com/itm/255343253674?hash=item3b73a4d8aa:g:WYQAAOSwAa5h6g4m) on eBay). I'm using it and it works without problems.

To support any other thermo-sensors, there needs to be a bigger interest, because I need to purchase it as well and create a support for it (if it's possible)  :-\.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 09, 2022, 16:27:11
Thank you very much for the answer, but did you rallye paid $254.49 for this sensor?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on August 09, 2022, 21:41:06
You see the price $254  :o ... I see "only" $23.95
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Andrew Heard on August 10, 2022, 00:26:07
funny - for me in Australia - $US23.95 too but $US200 shipping; I'll wait for a while ;-)

The actual developer only has two current models for sale WS02 & WS08 on their website
https://sensorblue.shop/collections/all. I wonder if these share the same protocol/ are compatible with LM.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 10, 2022, 10:54:30
I sent the seller an email and asked him if this was really his offer.

I look forward to the answer.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 12, 2022, 08:51:30
Hello Menion, hello Andrew,

I have now received a reply from the supplier. Shipping costs of $35 are due for delivery to Germany. The sensor is therefore still very expensive.

When googling I got u. a. found the following sensor: "Brifit Thermometer Hygrometer". This sensor looks exactly like the WS 07.

At Amazon, this sensor costs only €13.59. I will test it once to check whether both sensors are really identical. Maybe I'll turn to you again with a question.

I just see that the back of the sensor also says WS07 (see picture). So it does appear to be the same sensor.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Andrew Heard on August 13, 2022, 00:34:54
The best I could find was an import from UK (1/2 way around the world) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165482045478 although no LCD - different model. Risk?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 13, 2022, 19:56:41
I just received the sensor. Briefly connect Locus to the sensor and the temperature is displayed immediately. This works even faster and better than with the Garmin sensor and ANT under LM Classic. Thank you both for the tips.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on August 13, 2022, 20:22:14
Hmm good to hear it. Because of the system in the background, it should have also almost zero battery consumption.
Shame, that it is not easily available ...
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on August 14, 2022, 08:30:53
Hello Menion,
it's not that difficult to find the sensor, at least in Germany. Thanks to your tip I found the sensor in question on Ebay and then entered the term "SensorBlue WS07 SMart Hygrometer". Using the images then shown in Google, I was able to find various suppliers of this sensor. The only difficult thing was that the sensor appeared under different names from different suppliers. At Amazon alone, this sensor is available under at least three different names. Just compare the image of the sensor.

Since Amazon grants a right of return and does not charge any shipping costs for Prime members, the risk is relatively low.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for making it possible to include the "RainToday" app in the sidebar.

I've been in navigation for a long time. I started with Oziexplorer and Pathaway over 20 years ago, then TwoNav. I tested Garmin, Komoot and OutdoorActive and ended up with Locus Map. This app is indispensable for me. In my opinion, it is the best and most versatile on the market. Now that the Samsung problem with dimming has apparently been solved thanks to a tip from the forum, I'm really perfectly happy at the moment.

The service is also good, so I'm happy to pay the annual subscription costs for the gold subscription. So once again my thanks to you and your staff.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on August 15, 2022, 15:50:43
Nice post, thanks Wole and enjoy your trips with or without a Locus  :)
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on October 31, 2022, 09:58:09
I've picked up a "Thermometer WS07" from Amazon for about £11. Connects easily in locus and can be announced by the audio coach. If the screen has been off for a while the audio coach stops announcing temperature. The phone is P20 Pro on EMUI 12, my Mi band 6 works perfectly with the audio coach so I don't know what the issue is. It would be nice to see the max and minimum values for the Thermometer WS07 in the track stats too.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on October 31, 2022, 10:30:58
Hello Will, and does the track recording work correctly on your P20? Because if there is a problem with battery optimization, not just the Audio coach, but also the recording should be paused (not working).
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on October 31, 2022, 16:23:30
Track recording is fine, and I'm not running Locus as a service. I have turned the battery optimisation off for Locus when I installed it. I've searched through all the settings to find something which might affect the Bluetooth but can't see anything appropriate. As I say when both the Mi band 6 and thermometer are setup in audio coach, only the Mi band is consistent & reliable.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on November 02, 2022, 11:56:17
Hmm interesting. I'm using this sensor only at home, so I'll try to test it outside during recording as well and let you know.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on November 05, 2022, 10:17:20
So I've looked at some of my tracks in the planner which shows what and when were being recorded by my MI Band 6 and ThermoBeacon. Interesting to see some gaps in the HR monitoring but clearly big gaps in the temperature and I think that after the drop-out after the first few hundred meters, any other temperatures recorded are in periods after I've woken the phone up. Hope it gives some insight.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on January 29, 2023, 08:36:19
Hello Menion,
I come back to the topic "Thermometer WS07".

Two questions or requests for this.

For me, the Bluetooth connection is regularly interrupted after about 40 to 50 minutes.
When I then look at the sensor manager, the connection still exists, but the message "no connection data available" appears.

Do you also have this problem?

I can calibrate the thermometer using the thermometer app. The corrected temperature is then displayed via the app, but Locus continues to display the temperature that is too high or too low. Can this be changed?

Last question, can the sensor also be installed in Locus Classic? I use both apps.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on January 30, 2023, 11:57:04
I'm interested to know if any updates have been made to improve connection stability too. I've given up on this function at the moment
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on February 06, 2023, 11:45:05
The problem is apparently not with LM4, but with the sensor itself. I have now run the app Sensor blue on my cell phone. This app also breaks off after about 30 minutes despite the Bluetooth connection still existing. This means that the sensor itself no longer sends any data after a certain period of time. Unfortunately, it is not possible to contact the company's support via Amazon to find out the reason for the data transmission being aborted.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on February 06, 2023, 13:09:40
That's a useful bit if info. TBH I've just about given up on it and I'm going down the garmin tempe route. The sensor blue device isn't even water resistant.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on February 09, 2023, 08:13:40
Hello Menion, hello Will C,
I have already said that after about 30 minutes no more data is sent despite an existing Bluetooth connection.

By chance I found yesterday that the data is sent continuously if I switch off the display just before the 30 minutes are up and then switch it on again immediately.

Then the data transfer runs for hours.

I have no idea what turning the display off and on does though.

Perhaps my observation is an approach to a permanent solution.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on February 10, 2023, 17:10:20
Hi Will C,
another little tip for you:

I did some more experimenting. I have now installed the "Display off" function in the lower menu bar and set the bar's visibility to "always". Now I can tap the "Display" off button while driving without any problems and then switch the display on again by double-clicking it. In my opinion, that's the fastest and works great today on a two-hour drive.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 13, 2023, 20:46:07
Good news: I bought both the temperature/humidity sensors SensorBlue WS07 and WS08 from AliExpress. They both connected to LocusMap using the entry "Thermometer WS07" with no issues. I used the Locus Dashboard editor and created a map overlay showing temperature/humidity directly on the map. I tested both sensors with two other sensors I have, and both WS07 and WS08 are accurate and within spec (temp +/-0.5degC, humidity +/-5RH). Both are excellent devices. The WS08 has a display and runs on standard 2xAAA batteries, while WS07 has no display and requires the coin cell battery CR2477. On AliExpress WS07 and WS08 appear under the names Oria and Oria Upgrade respectively. The user manual that comes with the package actually uses the name "SensorBlue" on both devices, confirming they are SensorBlue devices.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on March 14, 2023, 09:31:01
Ah, thanks @svartbjorn , so WS08 is fully compatible, perfect!!!

Even after 3 months, I was not able to purchase a stupid CR2477T battery, no easily available here, so sorry, I owe you all here some tests. Anyway, Locus Map still confirms that Bluetooth connection to other sensors is very stable and working so here it should be no exception. So it really looks more like some problem with the sensors themselves.

EDIT: hmm but on the official site (https://sensorblue.shop/products/sensorblue-ws08-smart-hygrometer-thermometer) write also about 2477 batteries for WS08. So are you sure with 2xAAA?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 14, 2023, 10:45:52
It is true that SensorBlue on their home page specifies the CR2477 battery. By checking more on AliExpress this morning, I just found out that Oria has two versions of this WS08, one with the original case size of 50x50mm, sensor opening in the front and CR2477 battery, and one with increased case size 58x58mm, sensor opening in the back and 2xAAA batteries. Both versions are sold on AliExpress AMIR & ORIA Store.
But both obviously uses the WS08 hardware design inside, since the paper user guide that came with the 2xAAA version I received yesterday, has the text "SensorBlue WS08" on it. ALso on the back of the device the label shows "WS08D".

Today I will be on a 4 hour skiing trip and will bring both the WS07 and WS08 with me connected to LM4 to test connectivity. I will post an update on the connectivity when I am back this evening.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: baegas on March 14, 2023, 11:56:11
https://ko.aliexpress.com/item/1005005104787887.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2kor

The model that uses 2xAAA batteries seems to be this model

I've been using the WS07 for a year, and it's not bad, but it's not waterproof, and the lowest temperature measurement is -20 degrees below zero, so I want a lower temperature measurement in winter where I live.

https://ko.aliexpress.com/item/1005002007413266.html

https://inkbird.com/products/hygrometer-ibs-th2

So, could you possibly make this model (INKBIRD IBS-TH2) available in LocusMap?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 14, 2023, 23:16:43
This is the promised update on connectivity testing:
Phone is Samsung S22 Ultra with A13. I had 3 sensors connected to LM4: WS07, WS08 and a heart rate chest strap TICKR 7106. The TICKR stayed connected all the time and data was received with no interruption (checked the graph after the trip). I have used the TICKR several times and connectivity is always rock solid.

However WS07 and WS08 have connectivity issues. First I did several tests with screen on for >30 minutes, LM4 in the foreground and locked, and didn't touch the screen. When I checked the phone after >30 minutes, the LM4 sensor menu said the WS07/WS08 were connected, but no data received. I had to either turn the screen off and then on again (as experienced by another user in this thread) or tap Disconnect followed by Connect to reestablish data transfer.

Then I did several tests with screen off. Same issues. Each time I turned the screen on, LM4 showed no temperature data initially. Some times after 3-5 seconds, temperature was shown again, but some times I had to tap Disconnect/Connect to reestablish data transfer.

At home I tested WS07/WS08 with the SensorBlue app with screen on all the time. After exactly 30 minutes the app stopped showing data. By putting the app into background and then back into foreground, data transfer was reestablished. If I did this operation every 25 minutes while data transfer was still ok, another 30 minutes of operation was achieved.

Conclusion: It seems to be a 30 minutes timeout in the sensors themselves. Confirming what another user experienced and posted earlier. With LM4 turning the screen off and on before the 30 minute timeout is a workaround. This gives you another 30 minutes each time. Must be some sort of background communication with the sensor when the screen is turned on again. If LM4 could send some sort of command to the sensor every 25 minutes or more often, connection should be stable. 
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on March 16, 2023, 14:06:28
Just to mention that i had the audio coach set to announce the temperature plus other metrics every 1000m. Depending on the activity, that's every 5 to 10 minutes. I assume that locus pings the sensor for temperature at that point. This is not enough to keep the sensor communication "awake". As a work around I wouldn't mind the audio coach bringing the phone screen on if that's all it takes. Currently I've given up on this in LM4, and record all my activity metrics in a different app now.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: lor74cas on March 17, 2023, 08:53:28
Hello,
since these external devices almost all have the possibility of downloading the data in txt or csv format where there is a time stamp and the monitored data, perhaps the data could simply be combined at the end of the respective recordings.
Unless it is essential for the user to see everything immediately on Locus as is the case for cyclists who want heart rate and power always visible.
@Menion do you think it is possible to combine a csv with a data and timestamp to a gpx track in locus, a bit like this site should allow https://gotoes.org/strava/Combine_GPX_TCX_FIT_Files.php ?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on March 17, 2023, 14:16:31
Even if it's a pity that there isn't a permanent solution yet, I'm reassured that my findings, which I shared in my last post, have been confirmed.

Maybe there is still a solution to the problem.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 17, 2023, 16:51:44
Quote from: lor74cas on March 17, 2023, 08:53:28since these external devices almost all have the possibility of downloading the data in txt or csv format where there is a time stamp and the monitored data, perhaps the data could simply be combined at the end of the respective recordings.
Unless it is essential for the user to see everything immediately on Locus as is the case for cyclists who want heart rate and power always visible.
1) Yes, that is what I was thinking of also. LM4 would then be able to create a continuous graph at the end with no missed data. Downloading all data from the sensor is a command in the SensorBlue app, so I guess this is a command available in the API.
2) If you have the screen on all the time and Locus in the foregroud (which is typical I guess when bicycling), updated temperature/humidity are shown correctly as long as you use the workaround of turning the screen off/on at least every 25 minutes (see earlier posts). I have the "Turn Off" command in the bottom menu in LM4, so this operation is quickly done with 1 tap to turn off, followed by double-tap on the screen to turn it on again (also suggested by another user). However, if I put Locus in the background, I can see from the track statistics graph that sensor data stop flowing after anything from some few minutes to 20 minutes (I was not able to see any consistency).

However, both the above tricks I guess may be replaced by a beacon or restart command from LM4 to the sensor with regular intervals to keep the data flow alive (just guessing, since I don't know the API).
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 17, 2023, 20:13:56
Menion - you said you couldn't get the CR2477 battery in your country. Hint - it is available from several stores at AliExpress. Attention: it is available as non-rechargable 3.0V (CR2477) and as rechargable 3.6V (LIR2477). The micro-controller inside the WS07/WS08, the PHY6202, can run at max 3.6V according to its specifications, but I wouldn't take the chance to use a 3.6V battery. So - make sure you get the non-rechargable 3.0V battery - CR2477.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on March 21, 2023, 14:00:42
Hello Menion, I would also appreciate it if a connection could also be created for the Inkbird IBS-TH2.

I got the sensor. The advantage is that the sensor is really waterproof and is therefore better suited for outdoor use.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on March 21, 2023, 16:41:28
Hi Wole. I asked for an alternative sensor a while back Tempodisc  (https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/29812-bluetooth-temperature-sensor-request)they have an sdk available on their site. I have 3 of their sensors, one temperature only and fully waterproof, the other temp and humidity which is not waterproof. High quality product available directly from supplier based in UK and USA or via amazon. Locus connects to the sensor but can't read any data sadly. My request didn't gain traction so I moved on to the garmin ecosystem for recording all my activity data, using the tempe for temperature, so instead of using locus daily, I now use it only occasionally. The sensor blue option is not waterproof and therefore not really rugged enough for general outdoor use. The inkbird looks good, if not quite large, and the price is affordable. Maybe its an option too?
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on March 22, 2023, 08:49:11
Hello Will C, as I said before, I bought the Inkbird. He makes a very good impression, but cannot be connected to Locus.
Hence my wish for Menion to create a solution here.

The Tempodisc is too bulky and expensive for me.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on March 22, 2023, 09:11:05
Hi Wole, agree regarding the price but would like to say they are small and very light. Waterproofness us important to me, we've already had over 2300mm of rain here  so far this year  ;D

(https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ME7UzKLJQRamoF78)
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/gdT4pjwBwwEfThJN8)
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 22, 2023, 20:28:40
The WS07/WS08 can easily be made waterproof by putting them into a plastic bag. Adjusting to change of ambient temperature may take longer time since the whole unit has to adjust. However the sensor chip is mounted on a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) inside the case (I have opened it and reverse engineered the board), so even in open air the PCB has to adjust to ambient temperature before the temperature reading is correct. Also the case will affect the reading until it is adjusted to the ambient conditions. This is also true for a sensor that is rated waterproof. So why not simply use a platic bag. That is my plan. But humidity can't be sensed when sealed, since the humidity sensor chip necessarily has to be in contact with ambient air.

By the way - the Inkbird IBS-TH2 has a liquid rating of IP 4, meaning it is not guaranteed to withstand heavy rain for more than 10 minutes (refer the definition of IPX4).
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on March 23, 2023, 10:17:22
If the WS07 is put in a plastic bag, the ambient temperature will probably never be displayed correctly. There must always be direct contact with the environment. With a plastic bag, however, there will always be a higher temperature.

At the moment I've put a rubber ring around the device itself so that moisture could only get in through the necessary opening at the back. This has not yet happened.

According to my experience and also according to statements I googled, IPX 4 is completely sufficient for normal outdoor use in the rain.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 23, 2023, 14:50:53
Quote from: Wole on March 23, 2023, 10:17:22If the WS07 is put in a plastic bag, the ambient temperature will probably never be displayed correctly. There must always be direct contact with the environment. With a plastic bag, however, there will always be a higher temperature.

No, that is totally wrong. I am a computer designer and have also designed integrated circuits, so I know very well how these devices work and are designed. And I have designed several smart devices with temperature sensors. A temperature sensor is a tiny chip, which is sealed in a small plastic package. That package is mounted on a Prinetd Circuit Board (PCB). A plastic bag around that will make absolutely no effect on temperature reading as long as no heat is generated inside the plastic bag. The power consumption of the WS07 is extremely low - so low that it is totally negligable. The temperature in that plastic bag will necessarily reach  ambient temperature, and since a plastic bag has very, very low insulation effect, the device inside the plastic bag will very quickly reach ambient temperature.

A humidity sensor necessarily has to sense the ambient air. But water/rain into the sensor opening will also propagate further onto the PCB and other devices on that PCB if it is not designed waterproof (e.g. WS07). That moisture will eventually distroy some of the devices on the PCB. Particularly capacitors, but also resistors and plastic IC packages, are volnurable to moisture and are prone to fail after some time if exposed to moisture. I have experienced failure after 2 years of the humidity sensor I used in two of my own smart device designs, although they were never exposed to rain directly.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on March 24, 2023, 13:15:37
Having tested the WS07 sensors extensively. I can say with confidence that the already very slow response to temperature changes is much slower when the sensor is placed in a small bag. I even made a bag out of goretex. Other issues come into play when sunlight hits the bag. Side by side the bagged one reaches a significantly higher temperature. I chose an IP64 rated device which lives on the outside of my pack but it only records temperature in its own app. I prefer to have all my activity data in one app so moved to the garmin ecosystem. Their temperature sensor does not have an IP rating but has been tested by users down to 10m (too deep for bluetooth comms). In the end I chose waterproof devices over one that's not because where I live, if it's not raining it's either just stopped or about to start. Currently I own 7 sensors in 4 different types. Maybe I have a problem 😜
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: svartbjorn on March 24, 2023, 14:58:30
Your experiences make absolutely sense and are what I would expect. Slower response is expected, how much depending upon the insulation effect of the bag. But eventually it will be correct. If sunlight hits the bag, you will for sure get a significantly higher temperature obviously. A plastic bag in sunlight is identical to a greenhouse. Correct reading in sunlight is a challenge no matter how the sensor is encapsulated. Have you seen professional temperature sensor stations? They are big with several large white discs in a stack to create a proper shielding to sunshine. When I suggested a plastic bag, that was for rainy conditions with no sunshine. I agree that a waterproof unit is absolutely to prefer, but as long as LM4 does not support any such devices, WS07/WS08 is what we have for LM4, and using a plastic bag when rain is a workaround that I can live with.

I also have the Garmin Tempe sensor connected to my Fenix 3 watch. It is strange that the Tempe case is black, since black absorbes sunlight while white reflects sunlight. That is why professional temperature sensor stations are white. The Tempe sensor is one example of a completely sealed case with no direct contact between the sensor and ambient air. That is why it is waterproof. So Tempe, just like WS07 in a plastic bag, depends upon the whole unit to cool down/heat up to reach ambient temperature before you get correct reading.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 24, 2023, 22:55:21
FWIW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevenson_screen
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on March 25, 2023, 08:25:43
Here is my solution in pictures. I am currently using a WS08 sensor. I sealed the opening of the two parts with a waterproof rubber ring (image 1), then attached the sensor to my mobile phone holder with the necessary openings facing down. Then the mobile phone itself comes over the sensor (image 2). This means that the sensor is also largely covered at the top. At this angle, no rain can get into the sensor from below either.

In this constellation I have been driving for months without any problems, even in the rain.

I don't need a bag that is opened or closed depending on the weather, apart from the fact that a bag always poses the risk of falsifying the temperature (it's always cooler outside than inside, regardless of the weather).

The problems remain, of course, on the one hand that the connection breaks off after about 30 minutes and, above all, the great inertia of the sensor.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on March 25, 2023, 13:28:59
Hi, I agree about the Stevenson screen, I operate 3 weather stations which utilise Stevenson screens. Good discussion folks.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on May 17, 2023, 11:09:26
Hi guys,
I`ve finally found a time to purchase a battery and properly test existing WS07 support. Indeed, I`ve found that app does not receive data when the screen is turned off. Fortunately, there seems to exists a method that may solve this issue. Implemented, tested, and working... So in the next version ...
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on May 18, 2023, 11:13:17
Hello Menion,
that would be great!
I didn't expect a solution at all.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Will C on May 18, 2023, 12:22:53
Completely agree, great that you've done that for us.
Quote from: Wole on May 18, 2023, 11:13:17Hello Menion,
that would be great!
I didn't expect a solution at all.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Wole on May 24, 2023, 20:47:09
Hello Menion,
Just installed the latest update. The temperature sensor is now working properly. Thank you for your efforts.
Title: Re: Temperature sensor
Post by: Menion on May 25, 2023, 11:20:22
Amazing. Thanks for the test!