Locus Map - forum

Development => Versions => Topic started by: Menion on December 05, 2019, 13:54:23

Title: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on December 05, 2019, 13:54:23
Important links
- this time without a blogpost
- list of news (https://help.locusmap.eu/announcement/version-3-42-5-12-2019) of public versions

Versions
5. 12. 2019 - Locus 3.42.0
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on December 05, 2019, 22:10:14
3.42 Pro had blank release notes at startup & menu > About > Release Notes.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on December 06, 2019, 08:19:47
Thanks Andrew, I've noticed it as well ... just a too late. The little stupid system when I always create notes for Free version and then copy&paste them to Pro version ... and this time I have a) forget to copy and b) forget to manually check if Pro version is generated correctly.
News are on the help desk (link in the first post).
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on December 06, 2019, 08:32:43
I like reading a long list of changes. It's a sign that lots of development is happening! Locus is almost unique in the level of detail in release notes.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on December 06, 2019, 16:34:23
To me also looks like a good and solid release. As for release notes, I'm happy with the way you do it. We all know lame Google/Spotify release notes which go like "bug fixes and improvements".
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: balloni55 on December 08, 2019, 13:58:47
Hello menion,
perhaps you implement "stabilized GPS" by accident to PRO and so it didn´t work.
BTW in Beta it work well ;)
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on December 09, 2019, 07:22:41
@balloni55
heh funny. This seems to be a side effect of the installed Beta version.

Thanks all for the valuable feedback. Few comments:

Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on December 14, 2019, 08:30:21
When I create a waypoint it has the field "Created" in hh:mm format, could you please add seconds, just as you did for trackpoints?
Also, "Last updated" field in POI has no seconds.

Quite a serious issue that in the configurable main menu you cannot make hidden (red) entries reappear. They are lost.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on December 16, 2019, 20:20:40
Menion, creation time, it's already there in the beta, I was just saying it should include seconds, if it's there, at least for consistency.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: slarti76 on December 18, 2019, 07:38:46
I was on a longer holiday and did quite some editing of tracks. A few things I noticed:
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: slarti76 on December 18, 2019, 11:08:50
Another thing in 3.42, about the wider side menus:
As the screenshot shows, on small devices the "bar" almost covers the whole screen. That's OK, but I think the design, especially of the points one, is more than suboptimal:
- Icon column takes up a lots of whitespace with a very small icon in it (and weirdly more space to the right than to the left)
- Name column second line is cut off by the "eye" column, which is especially unnice in this case, where the icons are active. The first line at least has a "...", but the second one is really cut off without any whitespace.
- Also, first and second line have the same vertical space as between row and horizontal line. Decresing this makes it more obvious that these belong together, and also allows for more rows to be displayed.
- And nitpicking: The grey vertical line separating rows to the right ends just a few pixel before the "selected eye" background
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on December 18, 2019, 11:54:43

@tapio
I know creation time is already there. I was curious about why you need "seconds".
Ah I see. Not really "need". My autistic mind was speaking 😁 a) consistency b) if information is there, provide it if it does no harm. Someone could need it.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on December 19, 2019, 17:54:26
Hi guys,
I've split this topic into two parts. One related to the current production version of Locus Map & Beta testing etc and second related to work on new design & features in Locus Map 4. Second is here (https://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=6817.0).

@slarti76
thanks for the complex feedback!

"Deleting trackpoint": if I edit and delete for example trackpoint number 100, then after this operation, map should move to the new point number 100 (so to next point). This does not work like this for you?

"Moving gap": this is for sure possible, but exact steps are unfortunately needed.

"Undo/redo": a little too complex task for now.

List of nearest points "needs more love", I know it. What you see with the second line is a little surprising, because there should be three dots at the end of line, weird. Anyway currently style is exactly the same (sizes of icons, white space etc.) that is used globally across the whole app and that is also suggested as a guide-line. I'm currently reworking some screens, so I'll keep your feedback in my mind: agree it should be improved.

@tapio
Oki, so seconds are not needed :). Then I see no reason to have them in the app.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: T-mo on December 19, 2019, 21:49:03
idea:
- pause navigation
when I was on holiday and on the way back from france to germany, I decided to hit a nearby supermarket to save delicious souvenirs. As navigation was over a longer distance and set so far perfect, I just wanted to make everything 'pause, being idle' until I would be back on the track and continue the journey, without any re-calculation or anything. As the traffic was busy and the surrounding unused, I still wished myself a freeze-button.
- being-in-action-button (keep screen on for some attention-time)
being in Paris-rush-hour and traffic I needed to keep the screen on to check the street-possibilities at any time. My current mode was via 'waving' (I love it), but still needed the screen on at that time to have free hands and overview  ::)

Yes, once again you find myself trapped in traffic-topics again  :D 8)
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 04, 2020, 15:26:41
New Beta version 3.42.0.7 just published with few serious bug-fixes.

In the case of no other complains, this will be a release version. Testing may be useful not just to verify that some reported problems are solved, but also to confirm that work on Locus Map 4 does not break any existing functionality (as I mentioned many times, most of source code is shared).

@T-mo
thanks for the idea. It makes sense so I've added it to my list of "todo" tasks once I find more time to improve navigation system (hopefully during Q2/2020).
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on January 04, 2020, 15:43:06
Menion, I have map shading with colored elevation in my profiles. After changing profile the map shading does not change. Does change/refresh on zooming map.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 04, 2020, 18:46:00
Hmm, I've just created two new presets and set to first to disable shading (and nothing more) and to the second to enable colored shading. And switch between these two presets seems to work fine. No problem with vector or any online map.

Any idea what may cause a problem here? Because I don't have any. May you just double check that both presets have really set shading as you want? Thanks
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: balloni55 on January 04, 2020, 19:12:06
"automatic enabeling of GPS when start map rotate"
if i next disable GPS, map keep last rotating position and do not point "north up"
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 04, 2020, 20:04:05
It's on a discussion. Rotation without centered location does not make too much sense, right? I found myself quite confusing and mainly problematic when during navigation (rotation enabled), I just wanted to move with a map and it still rotated under fingers. So rotation only when centered = ok?

Because of this, centering without GPS does not make sense so rotation without GPS as well (hmm this bring to question, if centering also should not enable GPS).

And now your good point ... completely disable centering when GPS is manually turned off? I just tried Google Maps and it behaves exactly like this ... the screen remains stuck on the last rotated value.

I hope that my monologue help me see clear optimal solution, but it didn't :). What you think?
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Žajdlík Josef on January 04, 2020, 21:23:40
The start-up logo displayed at program startup looks pretty blurry on the big tablet screen. Is there anything you can do about it?
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 04, 2020, 21:31:24
Ah, thanks, sure it is, I'll look at it.

Just info: it has absolutely no impact on the start-up time. It is only a replacement for a white screen that was visible before.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on January 04, 2020, 21:52:30
centering without GPS does not make sense
@menion - why doesn't it make sense? My logic - if the compass is working on the GPS/ Compass screen and the map is centered, map rotation should be possible. It is still useful, for example inside when there is no GPS signal.

If I drag the map while the Rotate map button is blue/ rotation is enabled, maybe disable/ gray out the compass icon to indicate rotation is disabled?

As I've written recently describing my confusion on this topic - Rotate map button is blue, compass icon is displayed, so why won't the map rotate?
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 04, 2020, 23:29:24
Because when you are not centered, the map rotates about some imaginary "map screen center" point and not around you ... because you (on your location) are who rotate with the device. And also, if you are not centered, it is most probably because you are moving with the map. And it's a problem I wrote before, that annoys me for years when checking the map in the field and not centered.

Indication of state > I'll do something with it. In current version and even in LM4, I've just forgot so thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Tom on January 05, 2020, 02:22:43
Because when you are not centered, the map rotates about some imaginary "map screen center" point and not around you
How about rotating around the REAL screen center (or the shifted one, if the option is enabled). So, in case of a centered map it would still rotate around you, but if the map is not centered, then it would rotate around an obviously desired axis.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on January 05, 2020, 09:05:34
Because when you are not centered, the map rotates about some imaginary "map screen center" point and not around you ... because you (on your location) are who rotate with the device. And also, if you are not centered, it is most probably because you are moving with the map. And it's a problem I wrote before, that annoys me for years when checking the map in the field and not centered.
@menion - sorry I read your post a few times but I don't understand your point. If I have a paper map and real compass I can rotate the map, and don't see why an app shouldn't be able to reproduce this same behavior, really whether GPS is enabled or not. It seems logical & consistent to me that the map be able to rotate around the current map center, if desired.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: balloni55 on January 05, 2020, 12:53:08
Quote
And now your good point ... completely disable centering when GPS is manually turned off?
centering or not isn´t the point for me
Quote
I just tried Google Maps and it behaves exactly like this ... the screen remains stuck on the last rotated value.
is google always a role model ?? i don't think so !  ::)

For me there are only two understandable representations of the map, either direction dependent rotating from the magnetic compass / gps or always north up.
Randomly fixed orientations of the map are not understandable
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 05, 2020, 14:19:39
@Tom
isn't it how the app behaves now?

@Andrew Heard
Mixing paper map with digital GPS based map is not too logical. With the paper map, your exact location is always "probably here". Also in our case here, you may simply cover your needs by manual rotation with two fingers. Then it will work exactly like your paper map > manually (just disable Settings > Controlling > .Map Screen > Simple multi-touch).

My point .. situation:
- centered map, you are heading to the north, rotate by 90% degree right so the top of the display point to the east
- move map two screens towards the top of the display (to the top)
- and now ... rotate by compass. What is the usage of this, just imagine it.
When you hold your device and turn by 90% (so the top of the display is pointing to the south), you see a map that is far away to the east and you can't say "this is what I will see when looking to the south".

So my main question: what is the use-case to rotate map that is not centered on your current location based on the compass? Because we may rotate by two fingers and agree, it may be rarely useful.

@balloni55
Quote
And now your good point ... completely disable centering when GPS is manually turned off?
centering or not isn´t the point for me
I wanted to write: completely disable rotation when GPS is manually turned off?

Google Maps aren't the only valid specification of how it has to work. Anyway, they are an inspiration and define how most of users expect it should work. And in the case of center & rotate mechanism, it makes to me perfect sense.

Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on January 05, 2020, 14:47:48
Hmm, I've just created two new presets and set to first to disable shading
You need to switch between two different shadings. I have attached all necessary files... Shading and profile files.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 05, 2020, 15:24:45
Ah, that's the point. Thanks Tapio, attached files helped. Will be fixed in the next version.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Tom on January 05, 2020, 16:03:03
@Tom
isn't it how the app behaves now?
You are right, the Pro version behaves like this. Only the current beta turns off the map rotation when panning the map.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 05, 2020, 20:54:19
Oki, I was thinking about it a little more ... the current system is used for years and it almost looks here, that I'm the only one who has a problem with it :).

So I've changed it and in the next app version, it will work as years before. Changes I try to make here will be included for testing in LM4 together with a few suggestions and improvements. Anyway, this may be discussed in topic related to this special version.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on January 05, 2020, 22:32:58
- move map two screens towards the top of the display (to the top)
- and now ... rotate by compass. What is the usage of this, just imagine it.
When you hold your device and turn by 90% (so the top of the display is pointing to the south), you see a map that is far away to the east and you can't say "this is what I will see when looking to the south".

So my main question: what is the use-case to rotate map that is not centered on your current location based on the compass?
@menion - thanks for taking the time to further explain. I agree with your explanation...but if the user wants to enable map rotation (around the center of the map screen) based on their compass, and the GPS is not enabled or they are not centered on your current location, is that their decision? They see the compass icon rotate, they see the map rotate, they see the Rotation button is blue. They tap (disable) the Rotation button, the compass is hidden, the map doesn't rotate. It is simple to explain & intuitive. There is no complication, no special rules, almost no need to document,  nothing to undo or warn about. When I sit inside or GPS is disabled but I am on a bus or train, I know the compass & map rotation will still be working. If the user pans the map, maybe rotation could be automatically disabled like you suggest, but still don't prevent the user from re-enabling - I think they are the best to judge if rotation makes sense to them.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 05, 2020, 23:08:45
Oki Andrew, but I still ask why this may be useful ... you try to keep this functionality, but how many times you find this useful, to just rotate a map with disabled GPS?

I may in the worst case, do this as expert settings, but still, need to know that at least a few users find this really useful. We have a company meeting on Tuesday so I'll for sure open this.

You never had a problem that you tried to look along the navigated route a few km forward and map still rotated under fingers? I have this issue almost always :)
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on January 06, 2020, 05:36:47
I rarely use map rotation and if I do, mostly for one use case:

If i am at a complicated junction, eg with many tracks and I am not sure which is the right track to go. Having the map in same rotation as the real world helps for understanding.

I very rarely turn it on while walking. In any case, rotation centered around me.

I have no 100% opinion on this, but turning gps on if user turns rotation on feels like too much. I'd expect it to rotate around map center, whatever the use case may be. I'd leave it as it is, but I admit I always see the "options are good" side of things. Does not go well with Menions goal to streamline the Locus Monster.  ;D
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on January 06, 2020, 07:36:00
I wasn't planning on writing more on this matter. I've already written too much & by evidence of only a few other comments, no one has a strong preference.

Oki Andrew, but I still ask why this may be useful ... you try to keep this functionality, but how many times you find this useful, to just rotate a map with disabled GPS?
To save phone power I have GPS disabled by default, and only enable it when recording my track. And only then for noteworthy tracks. So, with all my route planning the GPS is generally disabled, which therefore means the compass is disabled when trying to orientate the map. Probably an atypical user.

My main point: it just seems counterintuitive to me, to intentionally prevent the user from enabling compass/ rotation behavior.

You never had a problem that you tried to look along the navigated route a few km forward and map still rotated under fingers? I have this issue almost always :)
No. I would simply tap to disable rotation. My suggestion is to auto-disable rotation when map is panned by the user, but not to prevent tap to enable.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 06, 2020, 07:53:04
Oki, thanks for the feedback guys.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Žajdlík Josef on January 06, 2020, 09:44:52
Personally, I like the rotation lock when moving the map. For tourism, this is practical. I often mind when I searched for a path on the map that the map is constantly rotating. Cycling is no longer practical, couldn't this feature be user-selectable?
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: poutnikl on January 06, 2020, 09:47:48
I like the Andrew's suggestion to have rotation disabled when map is user panned, but with option to tap-overrule it.

As I understand GPS OFF approach, because on long expeditions the battery energy can be an issue,as wall or solar charging is not always applicable.

Sent from my Xiaomi MI A2 / Android 9, via Tapatalk
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: freischneider on January 06, 2020, 11:21:13
For me there is no point in turning on when the card is moved. When I move the card I always turn turning off. If this happens automatically, it is a great advantage.
But I can understand Andrew if he has GPS off. But it is a special case. Maybe expert setting!
I think Menion wants to change that because of Locus Map 4. It is already there and he can do everything with one button.
Suggestion Locus Map 4: Standard (turning turns off when moving) and for experts you can make a button in the bar. If this is activated in the expert settings you can turn on and off only with this button and the automatic is switched off. This button only appears if it has been activated in Expert Setting. Other users don't see them.
Title: Re: [APP] - version 3.42.+ ( 5. 12. 2019 )
Post by: Menion on January 10, 2020, 08:04:04
Thanks for the feedback. In the end, because there is little harder to find a compromise, functionality will remain in Locus Map Pro the same as before. Alpha version is an ideal place for experiments :).