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Support => Troubles & Questions => Topic started by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:01:19

Title: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:01:19
Hi,
my aim is to create a route (with many deviations) for biking which starts and ends at one point.
I want to navigate along the complete route and when I miss the route Locus should lead me back to the next point of the route.

I now tried ( in the test mode with GPS off  8)) several settings ... but no one leads to the desired result.
Version: latest beta 3.37.2.9
Settings:
- Route re-calculation:
   + route priority (with distance 80 m)
- advanced
   + Strict route following on
       - what ever difference this should effect, because I always want to go back to my route when navigation a route
   + max. allowed deviation
      - I set this to 10000 because I don't know what this switching from navigation to guidance should effect

First I created a route with many "minor" streets with shaping points (Screen 1: red=desired;purple="normal" route)

When I start to navigate and leave the route for some meters Locus calculates the complete route new (Screen 2)



Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:18:05
Second try with "Via Points":
I create a via point and started with "point priority".
When I now leave the route Locus points to the first Via Point ... Screen 1

... but the navigation route doesn't start from my GPS position. It just shows the route where I should be.
My active cursor (with my position) stands alone beside the route.

Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:34:22
Another try with via Points:

The first time I leave the route LM recalculates and shows the new route from my GPS point.
When I then left the route for a next time on a different point ... then I can see a blue cursor on the navigation route and my actual position (+) with no connection to the route.
It seems as if recalculation and drawing the route new from actual position only works one time.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:38:07
Interesting ...  :o

when I activated my screen an tablet (after writing the last post) Locus immediately starts recalculation.

This behaviour can be repeated. I just have to wait until my screen is turned off ... when I activate the screen -> Locus recalculates the route from my GPS point.  ::)
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:47:34
When I then follow the route and stop navigation ... and want to  proceed the route (without having passed
the via point) Locus leads me back to the Via point.
I found no way to proceed my navigation to the end point ...


After some attempts ... I changed my setting to "route priority" ... and now Locus navigates from my position in end direction (without the skipped via point).
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 28, 2019, 10:58:31
As you see from my posts ....

Navigating is really confusing because of many different options with different effects.
At home it's possible to test ... and switch ... and restart .. and switch  ... and test

But last week I did a biking tour with my friends and (almost) every second parking place we stopped and  I needed to justify the route.  :(
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on April 29, 2019, 19:11:43
After some more tests (and the help from 0709  8)) I found a setting that comes near to my desired behaviour.
I choose "no autorecalculation" ... use some via points (to protect the planned route) ... set manual recalculation to route priority ... increased the size of guidance line (with distance shown) ...
and result is:
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on April 30, 2019, 14:52:06
Good day Jonny,
long post full of testing ... sorry for some bad moments you had with the navigation system.

In recent few days, I made some improvements, mainly related to "route priority" recalculation system. It will need some tests, but I think it looks good. If you are using beta versions, next Beta (end of this week) will include these changes.

I wrote about the coming changes here: https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/via-point-converts-to-sharping-pount#comment-69788 . Required behavior should be exactly what you need. App should with disabled "stick" option, try to push you back on route, but not force you to go back on some trackpoint far away behind you.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on May 04, 2019, 10:33:16
Thanks  8), with new beta it is working much more better.
But ... ::)

After recalculating Locus leads me back sometimes just 'a little bit' (without a via point).
Sc1: starting point
Sc2: overview
Sc3: this is what I would see (and hear) on my bike (with zoom according to speed)
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 04, 2019, 13:08:20
Hmm not best. Recalculation with route-priority, "stick to route" disabled, right?
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on May 04, 2019, 16:53:27
Right.  ;)
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 04, 2019, 22:09:58
Route Priority test.
A standard track to be navigated. No Via Points.
See Locus settings in video. Identical settings ? All ?
Same Brouter profile ? etc....

Locus Pro 3.37.2 simulated drive
https://youtu.be/gwDot4nnRqQ 
Locus Beta 3.37.2.10  simulated drive
https://youtu.be/xtJMIOL8Fds 

- Do not blindly follow autogenerated navigation re-routing proposals !
- Easy fast check and control  by a (manual production yes) trackcopy.
- Display both the copy and track to be navigated.
- Observe suggested (auto)re-routed navtrack deviations !
- Compare the (auto)re-routed navtrack with the original track(copy) reference.


Another example by Locus Map Pro 3.37.2 Strict Navigation: ON !
Simulated drive, identical traject as in the previoius (non strict) examples.
https://youtu.be/RgOMItv_QTg

@ Menion.
By Locus 3.37.2.10. Strict navigation functionality is disabled (broken) ?
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 05, 2019, 15:18:12
Hello Willy,
what is the difference between the first two videos? I watched them more than once but still does not see any significant difference. Thanks

I'm just tested Strict mode and it seems to work the same as before.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 05, 2019, 16:40:55
Quote
what is the difference between the first two videos? I watched them more than once but still does not see any significant difference.
Exactly...I do not see any difference too. What is changed in Beta ? 
Quote
I'm just tested Strict mode and it seems to work the same as before.
Had a new check by 'Route Priority and Strict. Menion you're right no change indeed.
I probably tested Strict in combination with Point Priority navigation.

UPDATE :
After MULTIPLE tests I confirm the report by jonny and others. (By both Pro and Beta).

https://youtu.be/TlK7vxW3oE0
In video: Repeatable. (By map shift simulation method)
Recalculated track navigates towards an existing target trackpoint. A meeting point where the existing and new generated track are sewed together. The target meeting trackpoint and generated tracksegment result depends on the precise user location when recalculate action is triggered.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 10, 2019, 09:47:04
It seems Locus needs a tail detector and cutter. All tracks (no offroad) MUST be (re)generated by B-router source !
In the tail the "main" track and "connect" track toward the "meeting point" are sharing same located trackpoints.
The furthest "main" trackpoint with corresponding same positioned "connect" trackpoint is the optimal NEW meeting point.
See common located trackpoint locations by Prune. > Shared trackpoints.gif
See common located trackpoint locations bij trackpointlist. > Connect and main track shared trackpoint positions.png
A. Locate the tail  B. Remove the tail C. Add path from start point to the NEW meeting point. > Actions.gif
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 10, 2019, 16:11:29
Willy, exactly this I've found during the last weekend and made a bigger update in just published 3.27.2.11 Beta version, so please give it a try. Will do too during the weekend :).

EDIT: damn, found one more issue after publishing a new version. Seems that app does not merge two tracks correctly ... yet. So the next version will be needed.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: poutnikl on May 10, 2019, 18:25:36
Hmm, I guess I have asked @Menion by other words about this possible undesired tailing recently as well. :-) ( not having opportunity to test it yet.)

Odesláno z mého Mi A2 pomocí Tapatalk

Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: poutnikl on May 10, 2019, 19:00:23
The new beta route priority recalculation seems working fine, doing deviations along a precalculated city walking route.

For both GPX based and directly calculated routes.

Odesláno z mého Mi A2 pomocí Tapatalk
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 11, 2019, 09:10:24
Surprised it works correctly to you :). Anyway, new version just published.

And now it seems to be working well ...
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 11, 2019, 13:16:56
A 5.1.1 Locus 3.37.2.12

A quick 'virtual test' only !  Report.

- Main track a (B)router design inclusive nav orders.
- Connect track by (B)router.
Picture > Connect track Brouter meets Main track B-router.png
Result > No tail > No nav order is generated at the (corner) meeting point ?
UPDATE:
Very occasionally a correct navorder at that corner meeting point is generated.
https://youtu.be/96pJ72QetKI

- Main track a recorded track. So no synchro with the B-router generated point positions
- Connect track by (B)router.
Picture > Connect track B-router meets Main track recorded.png
Result > No tail > No nav order before joining the (maintrack) meeting point.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 11, 2019, 13:24:17
Thanks for tests. If you in the first case get some navigation order on "meeting points", it should be more an accident then intent. I was thinking if the app should generate some navigation command on this crossing, but in the end, I've decided to left it rather "empty" then generate incorrect command just based on shape.

In the second case, there seems to be missing single trackpoint on the crossing. It may probably happen. We will see in terrain :). But generally, it seems to work correctly, fine.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on May 11, 2019, 14:30:22
Did some (couch-  ;))testing too ... and in many cases it works pretty good. 8)

Only one time it leads me directly back to my starting point  :-\ ... but I couldn't repeat this ...

I think it's time for field test ... (when rain stops  ::))

Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on May 11, 2019, 18:07:01
PS: can I change the value (30 sec) for delay time of recalculation  in config file?

Would be good for testing ... and maybe even in field ... because:
If Locus doesn't lead back I'm normaly back on route after recalculation. In other case my setting 'distance for recalculate' would prevent from immediately calculation.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 12, 2019, 15:37:26
And raining and raining ... which is fine, nature was really dry.

30sec refresh is hardcoded in the app. If you want to trigger it earlier, you may simply over navigation menu manually, so I believe there is no need for customization here.
30 seconds is from my point of view optimal limit to prevent too frequent recalculation. And years of usage confirmed this :).
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 12, 2019, 21:59:57
- The tail cutter is too agressive as ALL tails inclusive the planned ones in the main route_track are cut away by both route priority and point priority methods !

Suggestion ;-)  Sure, I know easier said than implemented

- By Route Priority. Detect and remove only those paths where the connecting track toward the meeting point covers the main track. The next uncovered part of the Main track should be kept intact as planned.
- By Point Priority. Make Via Points > MUST Pass Points. To be 'consumed by the navigator one by one in perfect numeric order. (Via Point list)
 Skip a Via Point at operation ? By a 'Via Skip' Button > Manual user intervention, that quickly changes the active Via Point list.
  A +/- similar user intervention to do as in the usual commercial car gps systems.

Compare Locus Pro versus Locus Beta.
- Locus Pro 3.37.2_route and point priority.gif
- Locus Beta 3.37.2.12_route and point priority.gif
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 12, 2019, 22:01:48
Second file.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 13, 2019, 07:21:00
Hello Willy,
thanks for the tests.

Point-priority: are there any changes in Beta version? Should not. Via-points are really must-pass points.
Option to skip via-point is really missing as well as the option to add via-point during navigation. I've well aware of it and it's planned.

Route-priority: what happens to you should really not happen :). Send me please your route as GPX, I'll test it, thanks.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 13, 2019, 08:03:21
Quote
Via-points are really must-pass points.
Strict Must Pass ? no no

-  https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/via-point-converts-to-sharping-pount#comment-70014

-  https://www.locusmap.eu/another-playing-with-locus-navigation-settings/
   -  4. Strict navigation with auto recalculation
       - Locus isn’t so strict and after a few seconds goes on navigating along the route:

The test file:  Staart.gpx
In and out trajects in real situations ? When ?
- An example: In and out path to a View Point (Tower)...A must visit Via ;-)
 


Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: jonny.blue on May 13, 2019, 10:35:28
Quote
30 seconds is from my point of view optimal limit to prevent too frequent recalculation. And years of usage confirmed this :).

No problem  ...  :)
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 13, 2019, 12:53:47
@0709
Heh, same as in my answer 11 days ago on the help desk (https://help.locusmap.eu/topic/via-point-converts-to-sharping-pount#comment-70014), I mix two cases, sorry :).

We talk here about recalculation, so I again wanted to say that for point-priority, via-points are must-pass.

Anyway, new version 3.37.2.13 just published and it should solve
a) issue with via points & route-priority as in attach file (thanks for help)
b) added hopefully nice tool that should prevent recalculation back if user ignore "turn back" 2 times. So if you ride forward, app two times recalculate back and you still ride forward, 3rd recompute should be forward and not backward.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 13, 2019, 17:03:57
Results in attachment.
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: menion on May 16, 2019, 08:40:44
uff, both issue should be fixed, thanks. The whole system is quite sensitive on indexes, so I'm sure there will be a situation when the result won't be perfect. Step by step to victory :).
Thanks Willy!
Title: Re: Problems with navigating a route
Post by: 0709 on May 21, 2019, 11:36:10
I also tested complicated navtracks with overlapping paths and some navigation waypoints with exact same positions at the out and return path.

So I did run into an already known troublemaker issue generating bad instructions by uncorrect attached navwaypoints to trackpoints. After a recalculation, the expected correct Nav Points are replaced by unconsumed Nav Points, generating false instructions.
Ooh ooh that fragile trackpoint_navigationwaypoint method  ::)

I carefully observed when or where this  bad behaviour is generated by Locus.
Easy repeatable issue by the attached demo files: Testreport, gpx Navtrack and pdf.