Locus Map - forum

Development => Discussion/New features => Live tracking => Topic started by: tapio on March 19, 2019, 18:29:42

Title: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 19, 2019, 18:29:42
Usefulness and my acceptance of the locus livetracking would be bigger, if there wasn't wasted space on the target website. I can understand you need to sell Locus client, but still, enthusiasm may not arise from bad websites. As much map space as possible, please! A floating hamburger menu and "buy locus" only inside the menu please.
Also that center/right info extender is too huge.
I'm obviously talking about the smartphone interface.

You must make something really good, because otherwise the Whatsapp+Google maps livetracking is the preferred solutuin for people.
IMO.
Last note: It improved, I have seen it. But needs to be better.
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: lor74cas on March 19, 2019, 20:18:55
Usefulness and my acceptance of the locus livetracking would be bigger, if there wasn't wasted space on the target website. I can understand you need to sell Locus client, but still, enthusiasm may not arise from bad websites. As much map space as possible, please! A floating hamburger menu and "buy locus" only inside the menu please.
Also that center/right info extender is too huge.
I'm obviously talking about the smartphone interface.

You must make something really good, because otherwise the Whatsapp+Google maps livetracking is the preferred solutuin for people.
IMO.
Last note: It improved, I have seen it. But needs to be better.
You can slide the menu bar to the top to make disappear the link bar of the browser, but it's not obvious for the user.
I think that all the white space on top and bottom in menu bar can be deleted.


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Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 20, 2019, 01:14:09
Usefulness and my acceptance of the locus livetracking would be bigger, if there wasn't wasted space on the target website.
+1 I had a recent help topic on this but can't now find it ;-(
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: lor74cas on March 20, 2019, 09:21:33
LiveTracking

On the website I can choose to follow someone of the the tracked users.
In this way I can see not only the user position, but also the user data.
Position is updated but the data is not.
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on March 20, 2019, 10:37:44
Livetracking: Chat from Locus to web is not possible? It should. I have already seen it in another LT-Solution.
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 20, 2019, 23:38:06
Thanks all for the feedback for our new Live tracking web. It is work in progress
I like the way when you click on a "group" icon it zooms in to maximize the spread of users; then if you click on an individual icon it re-centers them to the middle of the screen. However once centered a further click does nothing, but maybe it could open the right side panel to display the user details? Yes I know I could click the << link, just lazy. The panel also says "PUBLIC GROUP" but really it is a public individual - I know it is just static text, whether a group or individual is selected, so very cosmetic.

I wonder whether the group count is correct. In Sweden, Suomi I currently see 5 users. When I zoom in a little it splits into a group of 4 + 1 individual. But when I zoom out it shows the group as 6. The numbers don't add up.

It would be nice if, like Google Maps, the URL was continually updated, or there was a Permalink link somewhere you could bookmark, so you could quickly return to your zoomed/ panned part of the world.
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: tapio on March 21, 2019, 10:57:23
GPS tracking ideas:

Allow optional download of gpx. Allow time control on how long positions and GPX are revealed.
Allow to add POI on both sides, so people can show poi, give hints...
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 21, 2019, 23:08:04
Allow time control on how long positions and GPX are revealed.
+1 nice idea, my partner used the live tracking of my ride a few weeks ago but was confused when my position disappeared when no mobile signal at times. It would be better if last known position was retained for (say) 30 minutes (or even longer) rather than just a few minutes.

Also see attached screen cap - support date format DD/MM/YYYY
Title: Re: Re: [APP] - version 3.37.+ ( 18. 3. 2019 )
Post by: lor74cas on March 22, 2019, 07:34:26
GPS tracking ideas:

Allow optional download of gpx. Allow time control on how long positions and GPX are revealed.
Allow to add POI on both sides, so people can show poi, give hints...
+1 good idea, the user icon on the map with a position not refreshed after for example 10 minutes should be surrounded by a red circle, after 30 a black one and at 45 or more disappear from the map. In this way you can immediately know if that position is good.
I think that the icon for safety  reasons should persist for a very long amount of time, also 24h, and be removed only when from locus close a connection message was sent to the server.


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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on March 22, 2019, 07:56:29
Live tracking
In the user data should be useful to include  battery status.
In this way if someone unexpectedly disappear from the map no more answering at the phone we can know that almost sure it's a battery drain and not the worst horror movie our brain can imagine.

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: menion on March 22, 2019, 07:59:35
To not mess main Locus Map version topic with a discussion about the live-tracking web page, I've separated these topics, sorry for the small mess.

Thanks to this, @milan.cejnar (as a person responsible for LT feature) may read and forward all good points to our external cooperators etc. Thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 26, 2019, 07:37:55
Web interface:
In order to refresh the info box to the right, we need to click the LT icon on the map. But it changes zoom level which I do not like because I find myself always fighting against the web interfaces wish for zoom out.

Wishlist:
- Support more maps and OSM-themes.
- Also, topplus maps are great, I think free to use. https://www.bkg.bund.de/SharedDocs/Produktinformationen/BKG/DE/P-2017/170922-TopPlus-Web-Open.html
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: milan.cejnar on March 26, 2019, 16:59:58
Hello guys,
I would like to address most of the issues or suggestions you have mentioned here.

A common thing mentioned by all of you has been a wasted space on the top of mobile web page. This is a valid suggestion and we will talk with the web page designer about this and about improving the mobile UI experience generally.

As for mentioned control of the time the user is visible on the map - we have just added this functionality. It can be set by the owner of the group in the group settings globally for the whole group. Public group session time remained to be set to 10 minutes. Also some indication of how fresh the position is mentioned by lor74cas is also something we think would be useful, but is not implemented yet.


@lor74cas
Thank you for noticing that user data do not seem to be update at all in the recent version, that is definitely a bug.
Adding some other user data including battery is a good idea, we would probably also need some sensible way of showing the data values if their number increases, definitely something to think about.

@tapio
Live chat is currently not available through web interface, it is something we would like to implement some time later.
GPX is currently not generated by the live tracking server but we would like to have some kind of online track recording feature or maybe integrate track recording and live tracking together somehow to be able to share live tracking track.
For POIs, hints, comments etc. the Live chat should be used, but this option is currently missing from the web interface as stated previously.
Automatic zooming to the user after they are selected is really weird at the moment, you have described it quite precisely as fighting against the web interface. We will talk with the web designer to disable this zooming function completely and leave only centering to the user's position enabled.
Also regarding your problems of users not showing on the map, there were actually two possible causes of this. First there was a bug, which led to the positions not showing when the group user (session) timeout was set to indefinite, but that should be fixed since yesterday. Secondly there is a problem if the user icon's URL is invalid and then it does not show on the map. This still needs to be fixed. In the meantime try refreshing your avatar in Live Tracking profile or selecting one of the Locus Icons instead, which should work correctly.

@Andrew Heard
Thank you for the suggestions, most of the are good tips but we will focus on more pressing UX issues, as the web page obviously needs an update after the first release.
As for the user counts in the group/cluster not adding up; I think that the number was actually correct but some of the people had incorectly set icon URL (we had some issues with Google changing avatar URLs recently) and so one of the people was invisible when zoomed in to show the icon. We will try to fix the issue.
As for supported date/time format - the web should be using default for your device's locale. There should be no need to set it anywhere. Is format MM/DD/YYYY unusual for your locale? Other units are displayed using metric system only at the moment, which might also be confusing for some people unfortunately.


Anyway thank all of you for all the suggestions and feedback, it really helps us to pinpoint potential problems of lacking features of the new interface.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 27, 2019, 00:06:18
nice progress

>on the top of mobile web page
web AND PC web page?

>Public group session time remained to be set to 10 minutes
why not longer?

> Is format MM/DD/YYYY unusual for your locale?
isn't MM/DD/YYYY mainly USA format? I thought more common would be DD/MM/YYYY; and the latter is the way other websites display a date to me in Australia; both formats are problematic - who is to say whether 04/03/2019 is 4th March or 3rd April ;-( but that is not your problem
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 27, 2019, 08:44:40
Thanks Milan. Agree highly with Andrew, wasted space on web interface. The top bar makes it look like an advert page. Like: "this page is not the real deal".
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: milan.cejnar on March 27, 2019, 11:29:59
Hi,

@tapio
Yes, agreed. Regarding the mobile web interface the decision to show download button in this way was probably not exactly the best decision by our web designer.

@Andrew Heard
- mobile web AND PC web page?
Just the mobile version of the web I think. PC version seems fine, there is a lot of space at the top and we do want to have a download button in the menu because we want people to use the Locus Map client primarily and to obtain it easily, even though there is not any "spectator" mode in the LM at the moment, so technically the web page has a little different use case from the mobile client for now. But in the future the web will probably offer simply just a subset of Live Tracking features offered by the Locus Map itself.

- public group timeout
Maybe I could increase it to 15 minutes, but why more? There might be quite a lot of people in public
group and with relatively high fluctuation, so we prefer not to keep the positions in the public group that long which also helps to save the data traffic of other people following the public group.
As said, timeout in private groups can then be set to some predefined amounts of time or make it indefinite and people can share their position to both public and private group at the same time so I think that leaving the session timeout time shorter in public group is preferable.

- date format
Point taken, thank you. We will propose to the designer that we could use "DD MON YYYY hh:mm:ss" with moth name abbreviation.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 27, 2019, 12:07:09
Livetracking web page should be attractive. In most cases, I guess, it is used between outdoor enthusiasts and friends and relatives (at home). The enthusiast buys LT as for closed group, the web page visitors have at least heard about Locus. I don't think they buy Locus just for watching other peoples LT.

Non mobile Web page: I'd prefer a layout with stuff to the left, because of aspect ratios like 16:9 or thinner.
As in
https://maps.openrouteservice.org
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on March 27, 2019, 14:05:45
- date format
Point taken, thank you. We will propose to the designer that we could use "DD MON YYYY hh:mm:ss" with moth name abbreviation.
If you use abbreviation you need to translate them in all languages, what about instead to use dd/mm/yyyy format and add the function of a explanation of the used format with a link on an ( Info link ) or a mouse hovering function over the date?
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 27, 2019, 23:05:51
Maybe I could increase it to 15 minutes, but why more?
@milan.cejnar - my use-case is friends & family tracking my progress. For a bunch of reasons;
To minimize battery consumption I intend to block LT most of time; just enable each 30 minutes say. That resolution of position is good enough for family & friends; they don't care what street I'm on, just which town/ region I'm recently visiting. Maybe checking once per day; not watching minute by minute. So, most of the time this 10 minute server side timeout means my position won't even be on the webpage, or otherwise I need to incur a large battery hit.

I'll investigate private groups further.

Copyright 2014 at the bottom of https://live-tracking.locusmap.app/manuals/ needs updating?

Link from Creating a new group > Live Tracking Premium @ https://docs.locusmap.eu/doku.php?id=manual:user_guide:functions:live_tracking#creating_a_new_group leads to PC web browser page saying "Your connection is not private" + NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID + "You cannot visit link.locusmap.eu right now because the website uses HSTS"? I tried a few searches via https://docs.locusmap.eu Locus knowledge base but my web browser (Vivaldi) blocks access to the live tracking premium. When I attempt the same from Chrome > Live Tracking > Creating a new group > Live Tracking Premium, the browser gets redirected to https://www.locusmap.eu/.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 29, 2019, 07:44:50
To minimize battery consumption I intend to block LT most of time; just enable each 30 minutes say. [...] or otherwise I need to incur a large battery hit.
So now your experience is this bad? I have not enough experience with it yet, but I was thinking, there's just some sort of sleep() loop which should not cost much and then a http connect, some data, boom... not much battery impact, I was thinking.
BTW, at least on my device, LTE/4G costs a lot of battery, I always turn it off when hiking.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on March 29, 2019, 08:04:17
To minimize battery consumption I intend to block LT most of time; just enable each 30 minutes say. [...] or otherwise I need to incur a large battery hit.
So now your experience is this bad? I have not enough experience with it yet, but I was thinking, there's just some sort of sleep() loop which should not cost much and then a http connect, some data, boom... not much battery impact, I was thinking.
BTW, at least on my device, LTE/4G costs a lot of battery, I always turn it off when hiking.
I use LT and I do not notice so much battery consumption.
I usually downgrade the data connection from 4g to 3g or 2g to save the battery.
The problem is not the type of connection but phone always searching for the best speed so when you are not at top speed the phone searches for a better connection consuming battery charge. Here 4g doesn't have good coverage so I prefer a slower connection.
For LT 4g 3g 2g doesn't matter, it works because uses just few byte at every update.

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 29, 2019, 10:41:03
To minimize battery consumption I intend to block LT most of time; just enable each 30 minutes say. [...] or otherwise I need to incur a large battery hit.
So now your experience is this bad?
@tapio - it's not a bad experience; it's impressive functionality; I'm just reporting my battery consumption. I've been using the app "No Root Firewall" and the mobile data traffic is surprisingly high with Locus sending my LT data & Google responding with other LT users each minute even though the update setting is 5 minutes. Yesterday over 5 hours I just disabled flight mode each hour for ~3 minutes, and the battery consumption returned to ~2%/hour. I did find the LT lost/ LT found notifications didn't work reliably. I'll report more later...
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 29, 2019, 10:47:43
For LT 4g 3g 2g doesn't matter, it works because uses just few byte at every update.
@lor74cas - how do you know it is just few bytes at every update? I have monitored the data using the excellent app GlassWire and it showed consistently over many hours ~294KB download/ 86KB upload per hour. This was LT data going up/ down each minute. For me (294+86)/60 = 6KB/minute. Yes, not a lot of data per minute but it appears to keep the phone working far more than simple offline track recording, and my experience is double the battery consumption which on multi day rides I cannot really afford.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: tapio on March 29, 2019, 10:59:19
They hopefully have "as few data as possible in mind". @Andrew, well of course "bad experience" in terms of battery consumption, which a factor 2 is :D

I see you also have a friends/relatives usecase and I think it is a common one. I was thinking, Locus could become more state of the art as for emergency (or: phone lost)  warning/support. I had some lose ideas like:

- Send position to Live tracking Web server if user may be in need. E.g., after a user defined time of "no movement".
- User may get an audio warning, before position is sent and could turn the next send off with one tap
- Send position with SMS, also user defined timer
- A privacy mode which only sends in case of (assumed) emergency.

But well, should go to helpdesk.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 29, 2019, 12:19:30
+1

maybe all features for premium LT so these hard working Locus guys can make a few $'s; delicate balance ;)
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on March 29, 2019, 12:28:32
For LT 4g 3g 2g doesn't matter, it works because uses just few byte at every update.
@lor74cas - how do you know it is just few bytes at every update? I have monitored the data using the excellent app GlassWire and it showed consistently over many hours ~294KB download/ 86KB upload per hour. This was LT data going up/ down each minute. For me (294+86)/60 = 6KB/minute. Yes, not a lot of data per minute but it appears to keep the phone working far more than simple offline track recording, and my experience is double the battery consumption which on multi day rides I cannot really afford.
Adjust the update frequency in the LT settings to a greater value of seconds so you have less update for hour and less battery consumption.
I use 300 sec for trail running so I have a 5 min update, for my case of use it's enough.
Walking 600 sec it's also a good value.

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on March 29, 2019, 23:34:11
@lor74cas - I already have set the max 5 minute update. I have suggested/ questioned here & elsewhere why this limit is so low. For my described use-case I would prefer 1 hour update. Even with this 5 minute update as you can read from my previous posts, Locus is exchanging LT mobile data every minute. BTW there is a bug - if you set more than 5 minutes, then tap Back, the setting is not saved and there is no warning/ error.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on April 30, 2019, 14:33:50
LT not working properly:
in the last few times I used LT during my runs, after a while the LT position disappeared and no longer reappeared on LT web or LocusPro.
The last time occurred last Sunday during a race so I investigate, you can follow this steps to reproduce the issue:
This simulates something frequently occurs when the signal is lost, or when, in the border areas, a roaming operator is switched, but when the device hangs up the network, LT should work again.

Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: milan.cejnar on April 30, 2019, 14:54:48
@lor74cas
Hello,
thank you for the report, this is indeed not wanted behaviour, your position should reappear as soon as you enable the data again and send the position update. I will try it out.
By the way the time limit in the public group before disappearing should be around 10 minutes. For private groups this time limit can be changed by the group owner.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on April 30, 2019, 15:04:40
@lor74cas
Hello,
thank you for the report, this is indeed not wanted behaviour, your position should reappear as soon as you enable the data again and send the position update. I will try it out.
By the way the time limit in the public group before disappearing should be around 10 minutes. For private groups this time limit can be changed by the group owner.
My update freq is set to 300 so after two missed transmission it's normal I disappear from LT, what's wrong is that the transmitting device does not report any wrong transmission and when the signal came back, LT does not restart showing the position on the map
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on April 30, 2019, 15:48:03
Just another step, if you disappear and open Locus from the background while you have the phone signal you appear again on the map
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: Andrew Heard on May 01, 2019, 08:23:51
@lor74cas - I already have set the max 5 minute update.
I can answer my own question now - simply subscribe to premium live tracking. Very cheap. Can have 240 minute or infinite time. @milan.cejnar could promote this fact.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on May 01, 2019, 08:32:42
@lor74cas - I already have set the max 5 minute update.
I can answer my own question now - simply subscribe to premium live tracking. Very cheap. Can have 240 minute or infinite time. @milan.cejnar could promote this fact.
But it is certain that if I lose the signal and then resume it, LT will come back to life?
There is no problem to subscribe to LT premium I aquired a lot of coins I do not use just to support the developers.

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: milan.cejnar on May 02, 2019, 10:32:58
@Andrew Heard Thank you for mentioning this, it is true that private groups can set the "time out" to longer time.
But @lor74cas is right, this seems like a bug and increasing the time limit will only mask the problem somehow. I will add to my live tracking issues to solve.

@lor74cas Might only be a bug on the web, will have to try with two phones. The live tracking not reporting any failed transmissions might not be a problem. If there is no connection available Locus will notice this and postpone the attempt until the connection is available. The same should apply with GPS I think, so there should be no attempts to send the position until GPS fix is available.
But I would expect that as soon as a GPS or a connection is available there should be an attempt to synchronize position immediately (if last scheduled attempt had already been missed). So this is definitely not intended behaviour.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on May 11, 2019, 14:20:34
@Andrew Heard Thank you for mentioning this, it is true that private groups can set the "time out" to longer time.
But @lor74cas is right, this seems like a bug and increasing the time limit will only mask the problem somehow. I will add to my live tracking issues to solve.

@lor74cas Might only be a bug on the web, will have to try with two phones. The live tracking not reporting any failed transmissions might not be a problem. If there is no connection available Locus will notice this and postpone the attempt until the connection is available. The same should apply with GPS I think, so there should be no attempts to send the position until GPS fix is available.
But I would expect that as soon as a GPS or a connection is available there should be an attempt to synchronize position immediately (if last scheduled attempt had already been missed). So this is definitely not intended behaviour.
Is this bug solved?

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on May 14, 2019, 12:02:25
@Andrew Heard Thank you for mentioning this, it is true that private groups can set the "time out" to longer time.
But @lor74cas is right, this seems like a bug and increasing the time limit will only mask the problem somehow. I will add to my live tracking issues to solve.

@lor74cas Might only be a bug on the web, will have to try with two phones. The live tracking not reporting any failed transmissions might not be a problem. If there is no connection available Locus will notice this and postpone the attempt until the connection is available. The same should apply with GPS I think, so there should be no attempts to send the position until GPS fix is available.
But I would expect that as soon as a GPS or a connection is available there should be an attempt to synchronize position immediately (if last scheduled attempt had already been missed). So this is definitely not intended behaviour.
Is this bug solved?

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Up

If I can't count on the fact that LT works continuously for me this service is not reliable and therefore I can't use it.
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: milan.cejnar on May 14, 2019, 13:44:08
@lor74cas Hello, I am sorry about that, I have this problem in my task list but the service seems to be working reliably at the moment and there are no other reports regarding this specific issue. That does not mean anything and I will definitely investigate but I have set it to be a lower priority than some other tasks which is why it is taking a bit longer.

Regarding the problems with new web pages, we actually have problems communicating with our contractor and therefore we are unable to solve it at the moment, but we are very much aware of the situation.

Again, sorry about all the trouble, but I think the core LT functionality is pretty solid although I cannot dispute against that there are some major incoveniences at the moment.

Best regards
Milan
Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on May 15, 2019, 20:14:37
@lor74cas Hello, I am sorry about that, I have this problem in my task list but the service seems to be working reliably at the moment and there are no other reports regarding this specific issue. That does not mean anything and I will definitely investigate but I have set it to be a lower priority than some other tasks which is why it is taking a bit longer.

Regarding the problems with new web pages, we actually have problems communicating with our contractor and therefore we are unable to solve it at the moment, but we are very much aware of the situation.

Again, sorry about all the trouble, but I think the core LT functionality is pretty solid although I cannot dispute against that there are some major incoveniences at the moment.

Best regards
Milan
Thank you for your replay, I'll wait for the fix

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Title: Re: live-tracking.locusmap.app web page
Post by: lor74cas on May 25, 2019, 18:48:50
Yesterday tested again and fail.
There is something on the app side imho because when the data connection is lost and then restored locus app does not update the Lt info on the server.
But when you unlock the phone and open locus in few seconds the Lt is updated.
It seems that when the signal is lost locus stops to send the info to the server and do not stats again when signal is restored if you do not use the phone or the app.
Usually I start Lt and put the phone in the pocket (set and forget) and when the signal is lost due to connection change (borderline zone) bang Lt is lost.

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