Locus Map - forum

Development => Versions => Topic started by: menion on April 25, 2014, 15:30:04

Title: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: menion on April 25, 2014, 15:30:04
New test versions are now available over Google Play !
I'll try new system for distribution. Probably easier for everyone.

over Google+
join https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105669867009952671671

over google group
join https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/locus-free-pro-beta-testing

If there will be any problems, feel free to write me.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 25, 2014, 15:53:33
Google Play say: "No suitable device available"
I have to wait for auto update?
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on April 25, 2014, 16:03:28
Probably yes. I'm also waiting what will happen. But if this work in similar way as in normal versions (probably yes), it should took around one hour, till you receive notification on update ...
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 25, 2014, 16:40:22
Will this be the only way for testing? (just curious)
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on April 25, 2014, 16:42:45
if this will work then yes. But if you look at it, in the end there will be no serious difference. Except that it will be a lot easier to install this versions. They will just install as common updates over Google Play.

But I still see no update, hmm. Home there will not be a huge delay. Then it lost a sense ... :)
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: berkley on April 25, 2014, 17:27:03
Menion,
Please check your developer console and go to the apk section. Click Beta-Test and hit "edit list of beta testers". You should get a link like
Code: [Select]
https://play.google.com/apps/testing/com.locus.
Testers need to click on that link...

Or Google for "how to set up beta testing in play store correctly"
 8)  :P
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 25, 2014, 17:28:24
I can't see it either :-S
Do we have to use Google plus for this (the app) or just sign up in the community once?
(This Google plus app has really taken a bad direction (can't sign out, battery and mobile data drain) with the new version. As long as I can use the old version (allows me to log out and kill the app) it is no problem.)
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: tramp20 on April 25, 2014, 17:40:45
Sorry but I do not want to use Google+ and none of the other social medias.

Gesendet von meinem D5503

Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: berkley on April 25, 2014, 17:45:48
I'm already beta testing some other apps.

Guys, don't worry. You don't need the g+ app and you don't need to stay signed in. It's just a sign up process. You will get your test app delivered through the play store.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: Bucky Kid on April 25, 2014, 18:18:34
Sorry but I do not want to use Google+ and none of the other social medias.
+1. Tho I naturally have a Google account I don't have Google+ set-up (and would like not to do it). Any chance to have download for all users?
And one additional question, would this be problem provide testing versions with both Free and Pro ID? (so that users of both editions could decide if having testing version installed aside or inplace of official build)
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 25, 2014, 18:25:35
You don't need the g+ app and you don't need to stay signed in. It's just a sign up process. You will get your test app delivered through the play store.

Super!
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 25, 2014, 18:29:41
I do not want to use Google+
...and would like not to do it
A pity.
If this is a easy and good way for Menion - it's ok for me too.

btw.
 and as berkley say: don't worry - google has your balls already  8)
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: KaHeMu on April 26, 2014, 03:42:00
It's really bullshit with new g+ beta testing. After unwilling register to g+ I don't get any new version. It's worst, after reinstall free version from play store I'm getting a lot of advertising.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: Bucky Kid on April 26, 2014, 07:55:43
I must agree, new beta testing channel is more complicated than before. My phone is mostly on slowish 3G connection so getting versions from Play store is a pain. Would that be problem to keep distributing test version in both old and new channels?
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 26, 2014, 08:14:13
I have subscribed to the community on g+ but I cannot see the testing version. Can someone help me why?
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: tramp20 on April 26, 2014, 08:14:45
quote: Would that be problem to keep distributing test version in both old and new channels?

+1
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: tommi on April 26, 2014, 08:57:23
Though I'm actually not a friend of fb, g+, etc. I think it's the right way to go for beta versions.
A lot of other Android devs do it the same way.

edit
I have subscribed to the community on g+ but I cannot see the testing version. Can someone help me why?
What means you cannot see the testing version? It looks like the normal Free version but (at least) in my case after installation it turned out to be the beta version.

Only concern I have, how can I distinguish between real Free version and beta version?
The description I see in playstore is not clearly indicating what version is offered.
Usually I keep the beta version even after playstoree release of Pro+Free version in order not to loose the POI (and in the past the navigation beta) feature.
Now it seems I cannot distinguish what I'll get from playstore.

Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: michaelbechtold on April 26, 2014, 10:19:35
When I follow the beta link

https://play.google.com/apps/testing/menion.android.locus ->
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=menion.android.locus&ah=PaFQSFD6MVlfO2q66rp8Tnwa5fg

which shows an APK date of April 8th - not exactly the beta I'd expect ...

Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: eldron on April 26, 2014, 11:37:25
I really don´t see the problem with the old way of distribution...
It took about 1 minute to download and install the latest version - without having to register with g+ .
So my vote would be to keep it the way it was or to offer both ways.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: CaptKaos2 on April 26, 2014, 16:25:18
I think this is the way to go. I put the free version on an old HTC Desire and immediately got the test version. No more transferring files from my PC to phone.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: eldron on April 26, 2014, 21:30:57
@CaptKaos
It was never necessary to transfer files from your computer to your phone to install the test version.
You just had to open the locus forum on your phone, download the file and install it...
I really don´t see the great advantage of this new system.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 26, 2014, 22:36:47
I really don´t see the problem with the old way of distribution...
Maybe your point of view does not reach far enough.
I have to update 3 devices and 3 virtual machines. (home and office)
With the new method, android make this 6 updates without browser or dropbox download..
So +1 for GooglePlay test version updates
...and if Menion has an advantage: again +1
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 26, 2014, 22:41:27
Can someone help me with it? I cannot see the new testing version in play. Reinstalled but to no avail.
Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 26, 2014, 22:47:12
How can i help?
Did you read that and receive confirmation?

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105669867009952671671

Quote
* How to * 
1. Request to join this community to became a Beta tester (link below).   
2. After confirmation, download Locus Free from Google Play 
Note: Your installation of Locus Pro remain untouched.
Anyway Locus Free and Pro share same data, so keep this in mind during work.

-> https://play.google.com/apps/testing/menion.android.locus

So you should be a member:
-> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/105669867009952671671/members

Title: Re: est version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: Bucky Kid on April 26, 2014, 23:56:05
Strange. Locus Free link installs normal free version.
https://play.google.com/apps/testing/menion.android.locus opens page with error - we are sorry, here's nothing for you.
And my account with credentials at play store was already confirmed to that G+ group...
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 27, 2014, 07:35:40
Thanks Gynta!!
I was a member already, but I have not seen the second link till now. It installed all right ;-)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: michaelbechtold on April 27, 2014, 10:54:29
Hi all with beta trouble: I went through same issues myself, but in the end I got the beta to my Android:
1) register in thsi G+
2) wait to get admission to the beta program (!!)
3) then go to Google Play - but what you see looks foolish - it is old version from April 8th, HOWEVER
4) once I got it installed, it was in fact the desired beta version, 
5) the information pane shows v 2.20.2.2, but News only shows old, original April 8th version info
6) no ads, with Pro functionality until May 30th
Hopefully you can reproduce above.
Good luck
Michael
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on April 27, 2014, 13:03:39
Firstly thanks Gynta for separating topics - perfect!

Advantages of this new system
- you do not have to care about downloading/installing/checking if version exists - it just updates as normal version!!
- there should be a lot more people testing every version, because it will be a lot easier for them to get it. Not everyone is checking required topics here on forum
- it's also easier for me to publish it, just upload on one site

Disadvantages
- seems only personal problems with Google+.

I personally also do not like these social networks. I have profiles on FB and G+, but I don't use them except rare situations. So I do want this because of my hobby in "socialization".

So - common problems/questions I see in previous posts
I do not see beta version
To test it, you simply install regular version of tested app on Google Play. When you became beta-tester or when there will be any new testing version, you just simply get notification about update.

I still do not see beta version
Since I upload BETA version on Google Play, it seems to take up to two hours, till you get notification. So be a little bit patient.

I do not want to use Google+
As I wrote above, there are two ways how you may became beta-tester. One is over Google+ and second is over Google Groups. So if there will be more of you, who do not want to enable Google+, I can create empty Google Groups that will serve just this purpose.

Why this, I still do not see clear reason
I monitor statistics of usage on Google Analytics. Every test version is tested around 50 people, but here on forum I receive some feedback just from few of you. For me anyway even this has a great advantage. More people test, more possible they discover serious problem or app crash them (I also get notification about serious "force close" crashes). So generally - more people test it, better for me and also for you as users. And to attract more people, Google+ is a way

Ok, why not use both ways
I'm trying to make things simplier, so this is last possibility in case, there will be more of my favorite people here from forum, who really won't use Google+

Uff, sorry for a long reading, but it's Sunday and I'm sure you need something to read during lunch ;)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: tramp20 on April 27, 2014, 15:41:36

- seems only personal problems with Google+.


Ok, I am convinced and I got already the test version :-)

And thank you for the auto-hide option will be added to "Track record settings"
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 27, 2014, 16:09:58
The new distribution is fine. After it is sorted out once there is no problem with it. I have an account but don't use it except for this. It is just a minor annoyance to register if someone doesn't have one. I do not even have to have gp installed so it is perfect!!
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: Henk van der Spek on April 28, 2014, 12:41:20
Not only "personal problems with Google+ "  I have about 50 photo albums on Picasa with many links from my website and joining Google+ screws this up . I had that once allready. Too much work. And G+ makes the photo's too big so unusable for me.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: john_percy on April 28, 2014, 12:49:34
I thought this is a really neat solution to the beta test scenario. I had some problems as G+ chose to log into the wrong account - I can't think why! - but I eventually sorted it.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: CaptKaos2 on April 28, 2014, 13:04:30
Not only "personal problems with Google+ "  I have about 50 photo albums on Picasa with many links from my website and joining Google+ screws this up . I had that once allready. Too much work. And G+ makes the photo's too big so unusable for me.


Maybe one way around it is to make a new google account. I have 2, the one with Drive, Picaso and other personal things is only known by Freinds and Family.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: balloni55 on April 29, 2014, 15:07:09
Hello menion,
thanks for new testversion :)
updating on PC is not a problem
(http://s28.postimg.org/4cu4x9evt/GM_Link.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4cu4x9evt/)
but updating directly over device is not possible for me without G+ :(
Please add in future "Google Play Beta version" -link directly in your notifications mail?
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: john_percy on April 29, 2014, 19:09:35
updating directly over device is not possible for me without G+ :(
The link just activates the Beta version, which acts like a Google Play update of your Locus Free installation. No need for G+ on the phone/tablet as you can activate the link from PC. But you do need to use a G+ account linked with the same email address as you use for Google Play on your device..
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: balloni55 on April 29, 2014, 19:37:13
Hello John,
thanks for your answer
Quote
No need for G+ on the phone
i  tryed it
(http://s3.postimg.org/e405jrk1b/Beta.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e405jrk1b/)
in last screenshot you see the middel part of opened internet page, but i found no way to display the right part where the "Google Play Beta version" link is ???
i tryed it with sgs-browser and opera browser. With firefox i get an errormessage when i click on "mobile webside"
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: john_percy on April 30, 2014, 00:52:41
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. For me, once I had activated the beta version from G+ on a PC, it appeared as an update of the "normal" Locus Free via Google Play on my mobile devices, which is why you don't need G+ on your mobile device.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: Henk van der Spek on April 30, 2014, 06:50:48
Maybe one way around it is to make a new google account. I have 2, the one with Drive, Picaso and other personal things is only known by Freinds and Family.
Thanks for the tip, but no. Going "double " on my laptop and my phone is not the idea for me. The Google integration between phone and computer is great for me. The extra hassle of switching between one more email account is not going to happen; too accident prone.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on April 30, 2014, 08:45:37
@balloni: as John wrote. I also added hope that better description on "About community" page - https://plus.google.com/communities/105669867009952671671

You only need to join this community on google+, tap on one link and that's all. Since then, just install over Google Play normal Locus Free and you'll get latest Beta versions. When I upload new Beta version, you'll automatically get notification and will be able to update is as a regular update

@Henk, so you're the latest who has problems with it? Not personal, I know :). As was already said, you do not need Google+ app. You need Google+ web page to only one step - tap on button "Join this community". No more Google+ is even needed. I believe this is not a big problem.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 30, 2014, 09:55:35
New Test version update from google play - first experience:

Receive Menions notification from google+ "New version..."
cool !
but...where is it?
hmm, nothig to do - no updates - just waiting...
After reading first respone about new test version - i was impatiently
conclusion:
auto update does not work properly
or have to wait much(!) longer...
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on April 30, 2014, 10:35:56
as I wrote previously, update may take up to two hours (my experience)

Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: szebenyib on April 30, 2014, 10:43:53
I did not see Locus free updates. However it can help sometimes to check the app directly in play store because sometimes the button turns into update there sooner than it gets listed as an updateable app. ;-)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: michaelbechtold on April 30, 2014, 14:23:38
Two remarks:
- I (well, my Galaxy Note) saw Locus Free / Beta update yesterday night in GooglePlay (so it must have been uploaded and available in principle), and update-all never came back (liky Gynta saw it, too). This morning it did work, though.
- I advise to tell in OFFICAL place IN CAPITAL, BOLD LETTERS, that in GooglePlay, YOU CANNOT FIGURE OUT IF YOU HAVE Beta in front of you. No current beta APK date, nothing. It is all hidden and implicit. And only AFTER install, you can find out what you got.

Once I got beyond that initially, last week, the updates work just fine.

Cheers
Michael
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on April 30, 2014, 15:42:57
...because sometimes the button turns into update
That's the point.
The button shows always "installed" but if you click on it - you can choose your devices to update. (talking about PC Version)
I'll be watching the next time again :)

and as Michael wrote.
A small info text wasn't a bad idea.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: balloni55 on April 30, 2014, 20:03:08
(http://s3.postimg.org/e405jrk1b/Beta.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e405jrk1b/)
in last screenshot you see the middel part of opened internet page, but i found no way to display the right part where the "Google Play Beta version" link is ???
Now i found a way to start the update manualy over device (not PC)
In "Opera mobile" menue/settings/useragent you can choose "Mobile" or "Desktop"
with setting "mobile" not all content of the webpage is displayed :(
with setting "desktop" the whole content of webside is visible, not in mobile format but with slide and zoom you can navigate to the "google play beta link" :)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: berkley on April 30, 2014, 23:27:34
Menion, just a quick proposal.
What about setting up a "new" app called "Locus Maps Beta"?

This app never reaches production status, just stays in beta release. Set up the same Google+ group as testers.

That way you could avoid the problem with confusing your testers for not knowing the current release date and build number. Also you could use ANR's and crash reports directly through the dev console and match them to the current beta version. Same thing for comments or reviews. They are visible to your testers and you, but nobody else (except Google  ::) ).
You could also implement some methods against piracy.  :P

This idea came along my mind as I remembered some story, where developers are using the alpha and beta release feature on Google Play to exclusively deploy some apps to users. With the background to avoid the 30+ percentage rate that Google saves for itself.
BTW, Google charges only 5% for apps in the Chrome Store.

Anyway, I think you got the idea.  8)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 01, 2014, 18:27:13
@gynta, michael: thanks, I'll try next time set one more possibility. There is one field where I should write some short text for every version, so I'll try if there will be any influence and if you will se some special text that you install Beta version

@berkley: yes, I already thought about it, but it's for me so a lot more complicated that was this forum. If this solution (Google+), won't work perfectly for everyone, I'll rather return back to testing over forum, then this. But thanks, appreciate your feedback.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: jusc on May 01, 2014, 20:12:14
If this solution (Google+), won't work perfectly for everyone, I'll rather return back to testing over forum, then this.
I would support this ;D
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 01, 2014, 20:25:22
don't count on this solution a lot ;)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: jusc on May 01, 2014, 20:41:51
Why not additional?
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 01, 2014, 20:44:30
you mean why not to use both systems at once?

http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3867.msg28779#msg28779
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: berkley on May 02, 2014, 08:48:18
Then you could set up cloud messaging and notify testers every time a new version exists with direct link to download from Dropbox.

http://developer.android.com/google/gcm/index.html

Edit:
Damn, Play Service needed...
http://help.locusmap.eu/responses/custom_maps_from_new_google_maps_engine
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: eldron on May 04, 2014, 21:37:33
Hi Menion
I would like to continue beta testing, but I am not willing to join google+ . is there a way at the moment to do so?
In an earlier Post you said that you could add a way (a google group) to allow people to download the test versions without using google+ .Does that exist yet?
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: eldron on May 07, 2014, 22:13:34
Any news on this yet? Would like to try the new version that was released today.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: gynta on May 08, 2014, 13:01:29
I would like to test new beta version, but without sign in to Google+. I absolutely not need google+ in my life ;) Is there any link to *.apk file like it was a some time ago?
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 09, 2014, 07:14:57
oki eldron, please try this https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/locus-free-pro-beta-testing
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: balloni55 on May 09, 2014, 08:00:57
Yesterday evening automatic update "free-test" start it selfe when i return to my home wifi :)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 09, 2014, 08:02:55
this is how it should work. Just as normal versions :)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: eldron on May 09, 2014, 09:23:51
oki eldron, please try this https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/locus-free-pro-beta-testing
Thanks Menion, works perfectly!
Only weird thing was, that the google group was empty when i logged in on my phone (no text, no link, nothing). Worked fine on the PC though.
New Locus test version is installed and running now :-)
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay over Google+
Post by: menion on May 09, 2014, 10:18:44
perfect, good to hear!
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: Bucky Kid on May 19, 2014, 13:52:59
Hi, I need some help. Upgrade from ICS to KitKat, attempt to reinstall Locus bata from Store failed.
Followed the link to PS,
Unknown error -24 on application installation it says. Any resolution?
Restore from titanium backup doesn't work either, installing APK from sd doesnot work either, it says application wasn't installed
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: menion on May 19, 2014, 14:30:53
Hi,

quite interesting. For 90% of such problems exists working solution
1. clear cache of Google Play app
2. restart your device.

I'm trying to find what -24 means, but cannot find any.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: wvb on May 19, 2014, 16:20:52
I had error -24 before with Debian for Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cuntubuntu

There were several others with the same issue.
The dev released another version with a slightly different name.
This allowed me to I install it again.

Perhaps this gives you an idea what the cause might be..

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: Bucky Kid on May 19, 2014, 19:33:17
The cache cleaning workaround doesnot help. still on unknown error -24.
I'm getting problems to install with more apps, mostly installed from SDcard.
Can't this be caused by Locus beta incompatibility with Android version or KitKat's restrictions on newly installed apps?
Strange is that Locus Pro can be installed and working without any issues.
Btw. I noticed that internal SD card mount point was changed from /mnt/sdcard to /storage/sdcard0, don't know if that may be on cause.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: menion on May 20, 2014, 09:27:40
Android version, or change of memory path should should not have generally any influence on this.

I'm really sorry, but I have currently no idea what to do with this problem. From my point of view, it's some problem in your KitKat installation ...
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: Bucky Kid on May 22, 2014, 00:03:14
Problem is solved. Unknown error -24 meant there were residuals from old installation in /data/data/menion.android.locus/. After clearing data folder installation passed fine.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: menion on May 22, 2014, 06:53:35
ah this is really good news and important information in case, someone other will have same problem. Perfect!!

BTW.  I've just tried to use Locus on around 900 km car ride and I discovered that without Internet it's totally useless.  Do you have any experience with BRouter as a car navigation? I also discovered that I really have to improve few things to make Locus more usable as a car navigation...
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: slarti76 on November 22, 2017, 09:25:48
Hi there
I'm new to beta testing. I have Pro and now installed 3.27.1.2 Free. Now I'm confused, because the Beta Version finds some data from the Pro Version, like my database, icons, etc. - but not my settings. They were obviously all the defaults.
Are they stored somewhere else? I'm sure that would make sense, as a new version might have settings that could confuse an old version. Is there anything else I should avoid in order not to destroy my Pro installation?
Sorry if that has been asked before, but didn't find anything with the search and also on knowledge base.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: menion on November 22, 2017, 11:13:14
Good day slarti,
please check our manual here: http://docs.locusmap.eu/doku.php?id=manual:about:free_beta_testing . Not sure if all is included there. If you will have any additional question, feel free to write it here, I'll notify Michal and he will update manual. Anyway there should be no worry to have both versions as once. Beta version is simply say equal to Pro version and they both may exists at once. Data on card are shared, internal settings not.
Title: Re: Test version from GooglePlay
Post by: slarti76 on November 22, 2017, 11:38:56
Thanx for that info and the link. Looks like I didn't search the Knowledge Base thoroughly enough... Anyway, I think that answers my questions. Now to some testing :)