Locus Map - forum

Support => Troubles & Questions => Topic started by: franc on March 30, 2012, 07:12:05

Title: Was ist die "Azimut Linie"?
Post by: franc on March 30, 2012, 07:12:05
Hallo

in Locus Pro gibt es in den Einstellungen unter "Karte - Objekte & Darstellung" die CheckBox "Linie des Azimuts" - "Zeigt die Azimut Linie von der gegenwärtigen Position über den ganzen Bildschirm".
Aktiviert habe ich in der Kartenansicht oft einen dicken Strich mit Pfeilen, der irgendwo hin zeigt.
Was ist das?

franc
Title: Re: Was ist die "Azimut Linie"?
Post by: gynta on March 30, 2012, 08:46:38
bevor man hier eine wissenschaftliche Abhandlung verfasse muß: google mal danach... ;)
Title: Re: Was ist die "Azimut Linie"?
Post by: franc on March 30, 2012, 12:53:11
Oh, vielen dank für diesen nützlichen Hinweis ;)
Danke dass du keinen lmgtfy-Link eingefügt hast, z.B. http://http://lmgtfy.com/?q="azimut%20linie

Weiß es vielleicht sonst jemand hier?
Title: Re: Was ist die "Azimut Linie"?
Post by: tommi on March 30, 2012, 15:04:13
Wie Gynta schon (allerdings ausnahmsweise wenig hilfreich) meinte, ist Azimut kein einfacher Begriff.
In Locus verstehe ich die Azimut-Linie als Linie von der aktuellen GPS-Position aus in Richtung der aktuellen Bewegung. Man kann damit also auf der Karte seinen Kurs oder wohin man sich bewegt sehen.
Title: Re: Was ist die "Azimut Linie"?
Post by: franc on March 30, 2012, 15:49:02
Danke!
Azimut kenne ich (ansatzweise) aus der Astronomie, aber das scheint ja was anderes zu sein.
Du hast wohl recht, das könnte die Bewegungsrichtung sein, obgleich ich mir einbilde schon beobachtet zu haben, dass der Bewegungsrichtungspfeil von diesem "Azimut" Strich abwich.

Auf Wikipedia  ist Azimut in der Kartografie ja ein Winkel und keine Richtung:

http://http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimut#Azimute_in_der_Navigation_und_Technik

Quote
...In der Kartografie versteht man unter Azimut den im Uhrzeigersinn gemessenen Winkel zwischen geografisch-Nord (Nordpol) und einer beliebigen Richtung (z. B. Marschrichtung, Magnetkompass-Peilung etc.) auf der Erdoberfläche....

Ich muss wohl mal in der englischen Abteilung des Forums fragen, der Entwickler von Locus wird es ja wissen ;)

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1748 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1748)
Title: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: franc on March 30, 2012, 15:54:56
Hello

I asked already in the german subforum but nobody knew it exactly:

What is the "Azimuth line" (from Map objects in the settings) exactly?
See:
http://www.locusmap.eu/support/manual/s ... ap?lang=en (http://www.locusmap.eu/support/manual/settings/map?lang=en)

Is it the direction of movement?
I doubt it.

Frank
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 30, 2012, 16:19:49
TOPICS merged

Hello Frank,
  if you're familiar with English, as rather directly in English (as we currently discuss here viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1747 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1747))

about the Azimuth line. Did you played with it already? Just enable and try to go somewhere with enabled GPS. It show your current moving direction as you wrote. But count that on this direction have also effect if you have enabled/disabled support of internal compass (settings or Satellite screen). So if you'll have enabled compass, then this line will show orientation of you phone, not GPS bearing.

  and why this? I personally do not use it, but many people found it useful because from small arrow that shows your direction during move (just small icon on map) isn't clear exactly where you go ... this show this precisely over whole screen
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on March 30, 2012, 16:41:34
Menion, I just used azimuth line before I tried to answer Frank's question. For me the line disappears if I do not move though compass enabled and GPS in sync, so information from compass doesn't seem to be used in this case.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 30, 2012, 16:46:43
Hmm I think that it is, it just do not show if you stay calm. You're right that it's probably issue when you have compass enabled right? It should be displayed even if you stay on one place without movement (of course only if you have hardware compass enabled). It's same with "Show view" (under rotate button) right? It's show correctly so in same way should work azimuth line ...
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on March 30, 2012, 17:03:37
Quote from: "menion"
Hmm I think that it is, it just do not show if you stay calm. You're right that it's probably issue when you have compass enabled right? It should be displayed even if you stay on one place without movement (of course only if you have hardware compass enabled). It's same with "Show view" (under rotate button) right? It's show correctly so in same way should work azimuth line ...
If compass is disabled and GPS measurement says you are moving, azimuth line is displayed
If compass is disabled but GPS measurement says speed is 0.0, the azimuth line is not displayed, independent of hardware compass setting.
Yes, the yellow "Show view" cone is displayed if hw compass is enabled and show view setting active.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 30, 2012, 17:10:03
yes, that's how I see it also. So it's a wrong system right? Azimuth line should be displayed in same way as "Show view", correct? I'm going to fix it ...

franc: everything clear?
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on March 30, 2012, 17:11:13
Thanks for moving this topic into English:)

The azimuth line is actually a misnomer, for its real term is "Course Bearing" (the direction you actually move).

There is often some confusion in the terms being used with navigation. What is used most are the following:
-Course: The waypoint (line) you have plotted on your map
-Course Bearing: "Azimuth Line" in Locus. The actual way you are moving to.
-Heading: The direction the nose of your ship or plane is pointing at. (true and magnetic are also used)
-Bearing: The number you get when you turn your compass at something.

At land, "course bearing" and "heading" will be the same. But at sea or in a plane those number will differ because of wind and drift. If you have a strong wind or current from the sides, your plane or ship will end up at a different place than your nose (heading) originally pointed to. The "course bearing" will then have had a deviation from the "heading".
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 30, 2012, 17:14:56
ah thanks ... so what should be best name for "Azimuth line"? "Course bearing line"? :)

I choose this name because in czech, we call moving direction "Azimut" so ...
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on March 30, 2012, 17:19:01
"Course bearing line" will do just fine in English:)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on March 30, 2012, 17:23:55
o.k., we don't have an azimuth line anymore, aah, what was the problem of frank and me? ;-)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on March 30, 2012, 17:48:40
By the way, Menion... How about a new optional line: A "Compass line" that displays the data from the magnetic compass? 8-) That would be very nice
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 30, 2012, 17:53:52
hmm this is what we discuss with tommi before. Current line just display "Course bearing" if you have compass disable, or orientation from compass if you have it enabled (in settings or GPS screen) ... viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1748#p11011 (http://forum.asamm.cz/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1748#p11011)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: franc on March 30, 2012, 18:03:00
Quote from: "menion"
...franc: everything clear?
Yes and thank you! I use it :)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 31, 2012, 18:03:28
Hi guys,
  sorry but I need to open this discussion again :)

I read Gammalerik description. Understand, no problem. Anyway I also found this one http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/t ... -headings/ (http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/technique/navigation-course-bearings-and-headings/) because I wasn't sure about our result "Course bearing line"

and as I think about it

when you have disabled internal compass, then your orientation is took from GPS, so arrow will display "Course Bearing"

when you enable internal compass, then arrow show orientation of your device, so it display "Heading" right?

so "Course Bearing line" is not best in all cases ... damn :)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on March 31, 2012, 18:44:58
Why not say it's course bearing line if GPS reports movement and it's heading if GPS reports no movement and device orientation is taken from compass?
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on March 31, 2012, 18:56:15
because  in settings page is very short line for some "name"
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on March 31, 2012, 20:32:45
This why I suggested a new additional line, the "compass line" to avoid confusion.
In my example below I have enabled "hardware compass", but the course bearing (azimuth line) still shows my direction. Which I think should be so. I am pointing my phone at 170 degrees while walking towards 130 degrees.

To sum up: Everything is totally ok right now. With the addition of the compass line ;)
Then we will have bearing to objective from the "guide line", heading and/or bearing from a "compass line" and course bearing.
PS, I have also suggested some extra info on the course bearing line, speed and degrees:)
.
.
[attachment=0:1x1so5pp]Screenshot_2012-03-31-19-57-42.jpg[/attachment:1x1so5pp]
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on April 01, 2012, 11:45:24
uff, worst than I expect due to some better handling of internal hardware compass (not to waste battery when compass isn't needed)

so done. New settings added so both lines can be enabled separately. Only small problem is that "course bearing" line have one second delay. I need to compute your movement from current and previous location.

so needed improvements (and also small help from those who are interested in this)

I don't want to add some more settings for these lines. I think Locus preferences are overfill :). So I would like to set both lines on some "best" values that will not be changeable. So question is arrow symbols, color! and also some texts along this arrow (which I don't think are really necessary)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on April 01, 2012, 13:24:05
Personally I do not mind that course bearing has a little delay. If this helps to save battery then all is well. Actually, if it was to be computed every two seconds that would be just as fine. Concerning the hardware compass, I am using "heavy filter" setting to make it less twitchy. With a compass line this gets even more important so the line do not go "all over the place". Maybe a "ultra, ultra heavy filter" could be used?:) Perhaps even remove the filter option entirely and make a VERY strong filter default? Unless battery is affected from heavy filters...

As for colors:
-Course bearing. Red is already perfect. Highly visible for topo, seacharts and photos. Also when the sun shines on the screen. Highly visible in night modus too. Vital text for movement is speed and degrees.
-Compass line. Orange for high visibility just as the "show view" bracket? Vital text is just degrees. As for the arrows...Hmm, are they needed at all? This will make it stand out from other lines and also reduce screen clutter.

I guess pressing the compass button in the GPS-screen will turn the line on/off -and equally so for "use hardware compass"?
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: franc on April 02, 2012, 19:00:43
After testing it on the field, now I noticed that indeedly I haven't understand yet what the arrow means.
On these screenshots, taken while I was walking:
http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images ... 8-orig.jpg (http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/9203425738-orig.jpg)
http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images ... 9-orig.jpg (http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/9203431269-orig.jpg)
I have my "Azimuth line" directing to where I am heading directionly, but the blue Arrow (my location), is pointing just somewhere, I don't know where to.
I have checked the hardware compass on.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on April 02, 2012, 19:53:09
I have observed the same but line (what ever the name will be) and arrow not always point to different directions.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on April 02, 2012, 19:59:58
wait please till next version :) (tommi should test it later during week on testing version). I'm not sure if there is or was a problem, but some part of orientation handling has changes so maybe it will also fix this issue
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on April 02, 2012, 21:31:34
Quote from: "franc"
After testing it on the field, now I noticed that indeedly I haven't understand yet what the arrow means.
On these screenshots, taken while I was walking:
http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images ... 8-orig.jpg (http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/9203425738-orig.jpg)
http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images ... 9-orig.jpg (http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/4/9203431269-orig.jpg)
I have my "Azimuth line" directing to where I am heading directionly, but the blue Arrow (my location), is pointing just somewhere, I don't know where to.
I have checked the hardware compass on.
All is correct here. The red line shows your direction of movement and the blue arrow shows where you point your phone when compass is enabled. If you disable the compass, the blue arrow and red line will show the exact same.
(the blue arrow has a dual function based on whether compass is on or off)

But as Menion said, we will have to see what the next version brings. Two separate lines, one for compass and one for movement direction will probably save some confusion AND bring better navigational possibilities.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on April 06, 2012, 07:25:34
I tested this now with the current test version 2.2.0.3. Have a look at the result.
1) GPS reports some movement, HW compass enabled: red and orange line are on the screen (screenshot)
2) GPS reports no movement, HW compass enabled: orange line and cone visible
3) GPS not in sync, HW compass enabled: no lines, only the orange cone
4) GPS disabled, HW compass enabled: no lines, no orange cone

1) and 2) are as I expected, for 3) and 4) I'm not sure.
Gammalerik, any comments?
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Menion on April 06, 2012, 07:53:36
this behavior is similar to "Show view" ... I just need to have GPS enabled to show some lines for you. When GPS is off, from where should I draw orange line? From map center? It doesn't have sense because map center should be anywhere ... so GPS On is minimal condition for orange line. GPS On + movement is condition for red line (your real movement)
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Starman on April 06, 2012, 09:12:07
IMHO, Now that you have a "Heading Line" lose the "Show View" cone. The "Show View" cone implies a "field of view', which is not accurate.
The Heading Line will become more useful as gyros now are starting to be incorporated into phones and tablets.
The hardware compass on my HTC EVO 4G is nutslos. With a lot of figure 8s, i'm lucky if it reads within 15deg of correct heading, and it does not stay in calibration for long. In fact, when I first downloaded Locus, I was concerned that the locus compass did not have an Index, or "Lubber" line. Once I saw how innaccurate the hardware compass is, I realized it doesn't matter. So i'm glad the Heading Line is an option in settings.

The arrowheads on the Heading Line and Course Bearing Line appear to be at a random interval. Could instead there be tic marks at certain intervals? That would turn the lines into measuring sticks.

BTW, what you are calling the "Course Bearing Line", in airline nav displays is more accurately called "Projected Track".

BTW,this app is asymptotically approaching perfection.
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: tommi on April 06, 2012, 09:57:29
Quote from: "Starman"
IMHO, Now that you have a "Heading Line" lose the "Show View" cone. The "Show View" cone implies a "field of view', which is not accurate.
Actually this has to do with what I meant that I'm not sure about 3) and 4). Currently it's inconsistent, the cone is visible if GPS not in sync on the other hand the bearing line isn't.
I didn't understand the cone as a field of view but more as an expression of low accuracy.

Quote from: "Starman"
The arrowheads on the Heading Line and Course Bearing Line appear to be at a random interval. Could instead there be tic marks at certain intervals? That would turn the lines into measuring sticks.
+1, the tics should depend on the map scale and could have same info as the circles

Quote from: "Starman"
BTW, what you are calling the "Course Bearing Line", in airline nav displays is more accurately called "Projected Track".
Ah, without any knowledge of nav I also understand projected track better than course bearing line.
Poor Menion. And maybe Gammalerik wants to state on this.

Quote from: "Starman"
BTW,this app is asymptotically approaching perfection.
+10 (sic!) from my side
Title: Re: Azimuth line (map objects)
Post by: Gammalerik on April 06, 2012, 11:22:51
Have been doing some testing myself on a test version. Very pleased with the new heading line. At first I found it a bit jumpy, but that was just when walking. Enabled heavy filter in the Locus sensor settings and took a trip at sea with my kayak. Totally better results then. I guess the phone's sensors are getting pounded from the shaking in my hands when I was walking. At flat sea the heading line was much smoother. But yes, calibration is needed before taking a trip (smartphone issue). I verified with a regular compass and it was all good.

As for the name of the older course heading line (azimuth line), projected track will also do. The main goal is that people intuitively understand it. Perhaps even the new heading line could be named "compass line" too. I am not too sure all people now the difference between heading, bearing and course heading etc.

The arrowheads in the line could also have a measuring property as someone said. Perhaps they could be drawn with the distance from each other that represent the scale of the map? (the little bar furthest down and left as seen in tommi62's screenshot, 3 posts up)