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Support => Wishlist => Topic started by: joeloc on March 26, 2012, 20:25:56

Title: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 26, 2012, 20:25:56
GPS on/off, what good is that for? Maybe somebody could explain this to me, I simply dont understand.

I see it like this: Locus offers track recording and it offers a moving map according to current position. These are the two features that need GPS. I, as a user, can turn those two features on and off. Very well, very good.

But why must I, as a user, also take care about the state of the GPS? That is just an additional step which seems totally useless. Why does Locus bother me with that? Why does it not simply turn on the GPS automatically when track recording or moving map is enabled and turn it off just as automatically when both are off?

Maybe I miss the point here, but bothering the user with this GPS on/off business seems simply wrong. For exmaple, I start Locus and tell it to record a track. What happens is: Locus seriously asks me in an additional requester: "Do you want to enable the GPS?". Wtf?! I just told Locus to record a track... why would I ever say NO to this requester? Who would ever click on NO here? Whats the point of enabling track recording and then not enabling the GPS? Thats not a very logical state, why allow it at all?

IMHO, GPS on/off should be completely transparent and automatic. Do not ever bother the user with that decision. The user may decide about Track Recording ON/OFF and Moving Map ON/OFF, not about the state of the hardware.

What am I missing? What good is this additional GPS on/off step? Maybe I forget something really important, but I just do not see it. Please enlighten me... :)
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 26, 2012, 20:29:54
Who has EVER clicked on RECORD and then answered NO here?
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: berkley on March 26, 2012, 22:10:30

Locus can also record without gps data. It then takes the location from cell data. This is mainly to preserve battery. But it is clear, that cell location isn't very precise!

Cheers, berkley
Title: AW: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: jusc on March 26, 2012, 22:26:34
The track record widget works as you want.

Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: Menion on March 27, 2012, 13:48:06
I'll put here part of my email conversation with Stefan (joeloc). Hope it's not too private :)

me: "I again don't understand what you want. You start Locus, enable GPS, start track record and when you pause you want what? Disable GPS and ten minutes look on map in locus without GPS location? Little bit weird. I expect you disable locus by minimizing, or you'll use any other program, or whatever, but this activity will disable GPS automatically. Till you have locus visible and GPS is enable, GPS will remain enabled. If you don't like it (and you'll be first who wrote me about it), post it on getsatisfaction "

stefan: "I record my track for the day. I go to a restaurant for lunch and have a one hour break. I pause/stop track recording. I play with Locus, I plan my further route, I check different maps, I import new tracks from the web, all that happens WITHIN Locus. Why would Locus keep the GPS on when I do this? That makes no sense to me.

Even worse: Locus beeps loudly into my face with GPS signal lost alerts when I am inside, even when track recording is paused. That makes no sense either. You should not play this alert when no track is being recorded at the moment.

I simply want GPS ON when it is needed and OFF when it is not needed. That is not such a strange idea is it? After all, battery consumption matters a lot. And I was hoping that the "automatic" setting in Locus would do this. But it doesnt."

I'll write here rather then private conversation over email. Maybe this will be interesting also for other people. So, I personally don't like when program do too much things automatically. When I use Locus, I just want to see my location on map. When I don't use phone, I just turn off display and when Locus do not need GPS, it's turned off. When I sit somewhere and playing with locus and I know then next 1 hour will be GPS location useless, I just tap (long-click) on GPS icon and with second click I turn GPS off. It's fast and easy.

What you want make no sense for me. Imagine that I enable Locus, start manually GPS and then it immediately shut down, because I forget to disable new Stefan settings "turn GPS off as much as possible" :). You're thinking just from your point of view but many people use applications with different ways. And I'm sure that many people want watch their map, where they'll see current location and they'll not have enabled centering and track record! When I search some street in Prague, I also just watch my location on map ... it's absolutely normal. And also last thing - screen take more power then GPS, so rather turn off screen (which for a big surprise also turn off GPS if enabled by Locus) ;)

just my opinion, discussion is open ...
Title: AW: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: druki on March 27, 2012, 19:20:44
I think my mobile is smart enough to handle the use of GPS for itself. At beginning, I allways switched off the GPS if not needed. Now I leave it on and can say:
- the battery seems not to last a shorter time
- the GPS systems status symbol is not on always, but only if I use Apps that need GPS
- if I use Locus, I need GPS all the time it's running and I don't have to switch on or off.

But I can also understand the wish to stop GPS when pausing trackrecord (although I would stop track recording and switch off GPS if it's not available and I like to plan with Locus). Maybe we can find an Idea to combine both habits with a new setting:

"Combine Record/GPS on" = when track recording, switch automaticalls GPS on (if off). When stop or pausing track record, switch GPS off

"Combine Record/GPS off" = when track record, ask as usual to switch on GPS. When pause or stop, keep GPS status as usual.

Would this be ok for all needs?
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 27, 2012, 21:23:37
I agree that the screen takes a lot more power than the gps. Also... Android turns OFF the GPS automatically after a while when the phone does not move when you enable that in system prefs. It is called "use sensor aiding". Thats another slight problem for Locus btw, because Locus interprets that as GPS Signal Lost and alerts everybody in the restaurant loudly.

Anyway, can we at least agree on that: Nobody in his right mind will EVER say NO to the requester I posted above. So why can it not simply go away? When I say "Locus please record a track for me" then Locus should just enable the gps quietly. Even if one in a thousand users will say NO this requester because he wants to record a track consisting of cell id locations(?) or whatever, this can still be no reason to bother the other 999 "normal" people with an additional click.

And the GPS Signal Lost Alert should really only play when track recording is on. It makes no sense otherwise because nothing bad will happen. Call it "Track recording failure" alert if you wish. It is simply annoying to have Locus beeping madly when I pause track recording and walk into a store to buy a candybar.

Menion, you absolutely love those tiny little extra requesters and extra popup menus... am I right :)?

Locus GUI is completely overloaded with those. Another example is when I import a simple gpx track: There are about five different popups to answer, one stranger than the other. I just clicked the gpx file and then Locus basically asks me "hey user... i dont really believe you... did you really want to click exactly this file? yes or no?". I mean... come on... Importing is not like Formatting a hard drive... Can I not simply click the file ONCE and be done with it? Please... make things a little more straight forward :)
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: Menion on March 27, 2012, 21:31:02
I will prepare for you longer answer but just one quick - at begin, there was also non of them. But during a time, people wrote me, hey I deleted this, and hey I overwrote this, and finally I myself overwrote some data I don't wanted ... so result is this :)) But I believe you'll thanks me once when Locus ask you if you really want to overwrite category with your important points ;)

And no, I don't like them. But I'm also person who rather tap twice on Yes, then once a month search for a way, how to revert irreversible process :)

EDIT: this is of course not a case of GPS when you tap on track record. Purpose of this is to notice user that since that time, GPS will be on and will be consuming battery ...
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 27, 2012, 21:45:46
ha! now the gps is suddendly consuming battery... enough to bother users :). ok... how about adding a third answer then... "yes and never ask that question again"? a lot more work for you than simply killing that requester, but hey... its your time!

as for the messy five-question import... well... you know... i would say 90% of all imports are tracks only (downloaded from track portals). so all those category popups and selections are completely useless and confusing in nine out of ten cases. there is simply a single track and it could quietly go to the tracks database, no questions asked.

i know a gpx can contain more than just a track and this needs to be handled in some way. but you currently handle it by popping up plenty things before that will not matter the slightest in 90% of all cases. this is the wrong approach.

but we maybe should start another topic for this, to keep the forum tidy. this here should be about gps on/off only... sorry i brought up the other thing in this thread.

just a little reminder... every little extra popup and every little extra requester is a great nuisance in the great sweaty sunny bumpy outdoors... much more so than on your beta testing couch :).
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: Menion on March 27, 2012, 21:48:24
hey!! simply but genial. That's why I have so many clever people around me ;) ... "Don't ask again checkbox ..." - yes captain, work in progress (I'll be "slowly" adding this, on places where popup is not really needed)
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 27, 2012, 21:51:17
so about the on/off requester again: it simply feels like locus is making fun of me... and not in a very friendly way :).

user: record a track

locus: hey user... you want me to record a track, fine. but do you also want me to enable the gps for this? maybe you meant that i should record a track but not enable the gps instead? i have no idea why you would want this, but i thought i might ask you anyway, just to be sure".

user: thanks locus... go f... yourself for asking me this stupid thing the fivehundreth time. but i have no choice, i will just say yes. again and again and again... and again tomorrow.
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 27, 2012, 21:52:36
oops... you were quicker :)
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: Menion on March 28, 2012, 00:45:48
sometimes, something is so complicated ... "Don't ask" on enable GPS dialog added, uff. I'm going to sleep finally :)
Title: Re: GPS on/off decision, whats it good for?
Post by: joeloc on March 28, 2012, 21:13:53
at least you will sleep on a bed. i will sleep outside on some freakishly cold mountain in a very light and very thin sleeping bag... :)