Author Topic: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed  (Read 1470 times)

Offline menion

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Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« on: September 07, 2016, 08:42:29 »
Hello @poutnikl,
special topic for You from my experience last days.
As you know, we went on small vacation and there is no day without Locus. We are in city Pula in Crotia and we ride two days over 800km just with BRouter and your "Car-Fast" profile. Well ... it definitely needs improvements :).

Examples, try to compute:
N48.98271, E014.47151 > N48.97780, E014.46648 .. terrible shortcut over tiny streets
N45.57770, E013.91192 > N45,40608, E013.96209 ... this one was really bad, we ended somewhere in middle in tiny village and had to go almost back to start and take road 409 and 208.

There were a more problems, but these two are most obvious. I think that your profile really needs an higher preferences for a main road compare to tiny local roads, which are in some cases (like in Croatia) almost unusable for tiny family cars like our Fiesta :).

Is it possible to make some improvements so I may test it after 10 days when we will ride back? Bike & foot profiles works fine till now!
Ideas, wishes, problems
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 09:30:22 »
Is this the 2nd route - http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=12&lat=45.4895&lon=13.8848&layer=OpenStreetMap&lonlats=13.91192,45.5777|13.96209,45.40608&nogos=&profile=car-test&alternativeidx=0&format=geojson

Same route calculated for car-test/ fastbike. Just curious.
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 09:43:44 »
Well, in all BRouter car profiles, standard or not, is said they are experimental, not for serious routing :-D
I forgot to insert to profile comments all injuries, costs and inconveniences cannot be complained at the author, but are fully on the driver responsibility. :-)

What is the version of template inside the profile ? I do not remember if I did some recent chnages before or after the porting.

Speed and cost preferences related to way lenths are IMHO well defined.
Improvement is possible to involve the surface conditions.

What is still being tuned is onetime cost, that is significant to a network of many short ways. AFAIK, I had these costs to high in past, so my correction could overrun the optimal values and is too small.

Well, the street with is not availbale in RD5 BRouter files. Also primaries and tertiaries here, in Croatia or Africa are not the same.
I need some country flag for the profile.. :-)

I will see what I can do. I guess I can definitily provide some improvements until the return. Note that I do not have a car, and as a passenger I cannot test it nor often nor properly.

Pula... my first visit of western countries in 1978 with my parents. Amfiteatr, Brioni, rocky coast, nice western cars..
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 09:45:32 »
Is this the 2nd route - http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=12&lat=45.4895&lon=13.8848&layer=OpenStreetMap&lonlats=13.91192,45.5777|13.96209,45.40608&nogos=&profile=car-test&alternativeidx=0&format=geojson

Same route calculated for car-test/ fastbike. Just curious.
In fact, Fastbike is close to car profiles, definitely to moped one. If there are just few reasoable routes, such profiles can provide the same route.
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 11:51:06 »
Pula... my first visit of western countries in 1978 with my parents. Amfiteatr, Brioni, rocky coast, nice western cars..
You probably wouldn't recognise Pula now. All Istria coast is one big marina and accommodation strip ;-(
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Offline Andrew Heard

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 11:53:36 »
If there are just few reasoable routes, such profiles can provide the same route.
Would like to see what route @menion would suggest. Certainly the one using this URL seems logical without benefit of any local knowledge.
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Offline menion

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 12:29:01 »
Well I know they are experimental, but without real testing, they will never be fully usable. And I have no problems to test it in such way. Well Hanka was sometimes will surprised when I 10th time per day silently whispered "grrrr poutniku" :).

Yes, coast in Pula seems to be hotel ... marina ... hotel ... rocks ... marina. Hmmm we have a bike so few km away it is a lot lot better :).

Which profile.. I do not know as I have only phone with me. You may extract latest apk file and check it by your own in assets directory.

Feel free to make some improvements, I'll test it compare to our ride or directly in the field. Thanks

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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 12:33:05 »
Well, the url route combines highway=unclassified with tracktype=grade2 surface=gravel mtb:scale=1
Wow..  I mean Ouuuuu.

I see I have to test unclassified and perhaps also tertiaries for surface conditions...
I have never seen tracktype to be used for main roads...

Be aware the unbiased profile need some trade off of road preferences.
What is fine here, may be hell in Croatia.
What is fine in Croatia, may be pushing good roads too much.

But if the surface condition info is involved, it can be addressed.

Code: [Select]
Distance WayTags
1106         highway=unclassified tracktype=grade2 surface=gravel
2464          reversedirection=yes highway=unclassified tracktype=grade2 surface=gravel mtb:scale=1
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 12:57:37 »
I suppose today or tomorrow there will be a fix.
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 13:40:31 »
For now I have addressed the surface quality issue for the case referred by URL provided by Andrew.

Try the CarFast profile from the archive. When applied  to the route referred, it selects the better road on the left ( with good cost reserve) , without even need to trigger Avoid_unpaved flag.

I will later check the narrow road network issue, regarding initial costs of roads.

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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 15:40:22 »
Now both cases ( terrible roads and tiny streets ) are addressed in v1.0.22 car profile template.

You can use profiles from the respective major car profiles set
https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/raw/master/BR-Car-Profilesmain-V1.0.22.zip
resp. from full list https://github.com/poutnikl/Car-Profile/raw/master/BR-Car-Profiles-v1.0.22.zip
just in case you insist. :)

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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 08:38:35 »
Well Hanka was sometimes well surprised when I 10th time per day silently whispered "grrrr poutniku" :).

I was afraid Hanka was going to kill you for such surprises and if she would fail, you were going to kill me.   :D
In both cases, it would be probably end of Assam software company., so I am glad it did not happen..  :)
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Offline menion

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 15:55:58 »
Uff, all are in good health at home :).
I still found few issues in routing with car profile(s). Are you interesting in tunning these profiles at all? I'm asking mainly because You and Arndt focus mainly on hike & bike, so I'm not sure if you are interested in perfect "Car / moto" navigation as well.
If so, I may post again some start/end coordinates where profiles fail.
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Offline poutnikl

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2016, 18:28:46 »
Uff, all are in good health at home :).
I still found few issues in routing with car profile(s). Are you interesting in tunning these profiles at all? I'm asking mainly because You and Arndt focus mainly on hike & bike, so I'm not sure if you are interested in perfect "Car / moto" navigation as well.
If so, I may post again some start/end coordinates where profiles fail.
Welcome home at locusmap.eu   :)

Sure, I am interested in the car profile tuning, I consider all feedbacks I get.
If you provide data, best if as Permalinks from Brouter-web, I can improve it.

But be aware that Brouter car/moto navigation will probably never be near perfect, and always will stay as a plan B, or fallback solutions, for several reasons :
  • There are good, fast, free and fully offline car navigations with simple interface like e.g. MapsFactor Navigator.
  • BRouter does not offer some map info special features the dedicated car navigation software uses, like turn restrictions or lane choosing
  • BRouter uses in its RD5 files, and exposes them to profiles via lookups.dat just selected subset of OSM tags
  • BRouter ( at least in near future ) will always be handicapped not being optimized for fast routing over long distances, like using e.g. Contraction hierarchies, used in GraphHopper or OSRM
  • Brouter cannot provide extra hint info like e.g. streetnames
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 18:31:13 by poutnikl »
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Offline menion

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Re: Car profile by Poutnik, improvements needed
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2016, 22:24:46 »
Hi Libore,
no worry about "what BRouter may offer to car". I'm well familiar with it's limitations. As well as you are good informed about Locus limitations. No matter how good BRouter will be, Locus Map will never try to be one of best car/moto navigations. I'm not trying to make it such app ... bike/hike will always be a priority for me as well.

I'm trying to find out some places during my ride that caused some troubles and in the end, I found single one here:

First route
- with used "Fast" profile, it's correct. Anyway with "Fast eco", I'm sure, it's toooo aggresive.

I'm trying to be as much "eco" as possible, which in car also means longer ride without need to change a speed = better. And computed path is for "eco" case really terrible :).

That is all, thanks for consideration!
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