Author Topic: Navigation Generator  (Read 14654 times)

Offline 0709

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Navigation Generator
« on: March 31, 2015, 11:26:13 »
Why Navigation(guide) along track ?

Simple compact loud and clear guiding help for relatively (short) circuit designs.
Respecting minimal screen on time or so minimal battery drain.

Perfectly functional on MTB trails and (partly) going off road circuit builds. No shortcuts in circuit driving allowed !
Functional on temporary and unmapped paths also, or paths that even never will be mapped now or in future.
For this purpose some fine tuning/add/delete/edit of Coursepoints should be possible.
Perfect, strictly timed guiding even when using common trackpaths, multiple driving a path in same or opposite directions !

EDIT:
Automatic Guiding Navi Generations based on and by (re)routing maps in Locus = NON EXISTENT ! 
Routable map, and App as such, is not available in Locus.
See other treads routing subject. (Brouter and others).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 20:28:03 by 0709 »
 

Offline menion

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2015, 13:24:56 »
Hmm so question is:

Quote
Do you want such a simple direct tuning yes or no ?

And sorry, but I have to ask. What is "simple direct tuning"?

You may just delete waypoints from track generated by "navigation generator"?
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Offline chbla

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2015, 11:21:15 »
The editing discussion opens quite some possibilities in my opinion.

I remember a discussion with the author of openandromaps. For planning trips there is the very popular and quite good app Quo-Vadis GPS. There are not many alternatives, unfortunately it's expensive and the user interface is terrible. He told me that he still uses it sometimes but switched over to planning with Locus as well. He does this by running locus in a virtual android device on his computer (which is very easy to setup).

There are also someother options for trip planning, mostly online like komoot or outdooractive - however, since locus can integrate quite a lot of maps, and since openandromaps is afaik the only map that includes metadata like SAC and MTB scale and supports brouter etc, Locus could be a quite nice alternative for planning trips as well (at least to some extent).

Right now I use mostly brouter and bikeroutetoaster - the problem is that you can only generate course points/navigation info when auto-planning (calculating) the route. What I miss is a tool that let's you add coursepoints automatically to existing tracks, distinguished in angle (more than 45 degrees) or junctions.

An editing possibility of such coursepoints is very nice since often you want to use a track more than once, share it, etc and if you are riding on this track realize that some of the coursepoints/navigational infos are not accurate or redundant and can directly change them.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 11:25:07 by chbla »
 

Offline menion

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2015, 12:38:28 »
Guys, slowly on me please.

First small step - deleting of waypoints from track. In latest public version, you were able to generated, thanks to "Navigation generator", navigation waypoints along track and then later, start a navigation. This is not anymore possible in new Beta version. Tap on Guidance or Navigate, automatically starts generator and then immediately guidance/navigation.

So my first question ... can you imagine, you wants to let Locus internal "navigation generator", generates a waypoints with navigation orders (which may be later modified)? If so, should be for you solution extending current "Copy" feature? I mean - tap on a track > display track details > in menu choose "Copy" and at bottom is currently only "Change track orientation". I should add here also button "Generate navigation waypoints".

Result of above "Copy" operation, should be a track, with generated waypoints, that should be possible to modify. Because I still think that edit/delete waypoints for temporary track isn't too logical, as all changes will be lost after you close Locus.

So please let's start with this first step, if is clear for you from my description.
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Offline menion

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2015, 20:18:28 »
Hello,
exactly.

Basic version as you wrote - temporary track generated automatically for users that "don't care".

Extended possibilities - track stored in database.

I've just published new version 3.7.2.3 which will be available for download after around a two hours from Google Play.

Please try only display TCX track. Guiding should work correctly without influence of generator. As expected. To remove some points, try firstly "import" this track to Locus. Then delete should work. Some extra modifications aren't yet possible. For now. I firstly wants to make basic guidance/navigation working as expected without needs for some extra tuning. I believe that most people do not wants to hassle with some "tuning".
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Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 09:55:50 »
Hi Menion

Thanks for going forward with editing feature for navigation instructions. I'm begging you since two years for that.

So you say, if I import a TCX file with instructions into Locus I can delete several instructions? I will try that.

Currently I do not understand what the "new" behavior for guiding and navigation (beta version) is good for. Whats the difference between the both? But it doesn't matter, because the "generator" will never gives you a good result.

There should be at least three ways to get a editable instruction set:
1. Generating a first draft of instructions with the generator and than modifiing the instruction (delete/add!) is a good idea of you.
2. Editing an imported TCX file. Deleting maybe allready implemented?
3. If you create a track with instructions within Locus by using MapQuest or Brouter, afterwards we want to edit the instructions too (delete/add!)

With this features you are head of the house in route planning.
RidewithGPS is expensive and no good maps, Bikeroutetoaster is dead, GPSIES only "generates" instructions, Vectorial, RouteConverter and Atlas with Openandromaps are bullshit, basecamp is horrible, komoot, outdoorractive are all also not good enough.

So pleeeeeeeeeease do it and we will plan our tracks with Bluestacks and Locus even on our Windows PCs.

Thanks

PS.: Copy a track with generating instructions works well, and deleting single ones also works. Deleting option of waypoint should be directly in the context menu (arrow right).
And now adding manually instructions and you are the best!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:05:27 by Joachim Buhl »
 

Offline menion

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 10:16:38 »
Nice post ...

so precise explanation:

1. track with routing instructions (imported from TCX, computed by MapQuest, etc.)

a) navigation - starts directly navigation thanks to existing navigation instructions
b) guidance - navigator won't be used here as well. Started guidance directly over existing navigation waypoints so Locus will notify on these waypoints (if enabled "Set notification of the next direction change"). Settings "notify on every trackpoint" has no influence here.

2. track without navigation instructions (clicked directly in app, imported GPX file, etc.)

a) navigation - thanks to navigation generator, generates navigation waypoints and then starts navigation as common voice navigation
b) guidance (disabled "notify on every trackpoint") - thanks to navigation generator, generates navigation waypoints and then starts guidance. This will notify on these waypoints (if enabled "Set notification of the next direction change"),
c) guidance (enabled "notify on every trackpoint") - generator won't be used. Notification on next direction change will notify every trackpoint!



Main difference between 1a, 1b - navigation is, well .. navigation. It allows to recompute, it allows to use TomTom voices (which for unknown reason is not possible in guidance ;) ), it display big arrow on screen. Hmm as I write it, in the end nothing serious. But difference in usability is big i think.



Current editing options.

It is important to divide tracks to imported and temporary. Imported are these, that are visible in any folder in Data > Tracks. Temporary are just loaded on map and all changes will be lost when you close Locus.

Temporary tracks has no edit options now.

Imported tracks has support for edit of shape and also for remove of existing waypoints. Adding new waypoints is not yet possible.



All clear? If not, write me and I'll improve text above
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Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 10:36:40 »
Hello Menion

Thanks for explanation.

"As I write..."....nice. In my opinion the difference is small but I know now, that I'm not missing something ;-).

I get some error massage when copiing a track with generating instructions. See attachment.
The Copy with intructions is working nevertheless.

So the only thing we need now is adding and modifiing instructions, thats it.

Go on Menion.

Thanks
 

Offline menion

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 10:49:27 »
ah problem with tts that I forget to fix, thanks!
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Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 13:33:36 »
Hello Menion, hello All

Summer is coming, which means test time begins again - much work for you ;-).
I did a test drive a few minutes ago with a route generated with mapquest and using navigation in beta 3.7.1.3.

1. Even if the option of using the compass below 1m/s is activated, the map does not rotate according to compass when I stand at a crossing. I remember earlier versions do so. (In normal version it works). SORRY, Works. I have to deactivate snap to track!!
2. Is there a opportunity getting an option that the display leaves activated as long as I'm "out of track". After beiing on the track again, the display activation gets back to normal mode.
3. I'm still not satiesfied with instruction timing. The route was created in walking mode so the navigation mode is also walking. That means I get an instruction at 50m and one at 20m (around 15km/h speed) and non close before turn.
Is the instruction timing depending on navigation mode (walking, car...)? Is it possible to customize them?
Sometime the 20m is "so late" that it could also be the one right before turning.

4. Awkward behavior when some parts of the track are "used" twice. Explanation:
For mountainbiking there are sometimes areas in the forrest with a lot of trails in one area. That means coming up the hill for the first time we want to take the right trail downwards. Next time we come up the same way again, we want to go the left trail.
Could it be that Locus does sometimes not know if we are on the first round or in the second? Does Locus always navigates to the next trackpoint knowing which trackpoints we already drove in the past? Its difficult to explain.
On my testdrive sometimes (1 of 3 times) Locus takes the right turn on the first round where it should take the left turn. On the second round it should take then the right turn.

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 13:58:47 by Joachim Buhl »
 

Offline Sersus

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 16:11:42 »
Seems I misunderstood you last time we talked about this. I have got a new mobile at the moment with more RAM and newly installed apps but the problem still exists. The matter is that when Locus is on for navigating on the the long tracks (over 100 km) it can suddenly stops seeing and following (being attracted) the nearest point whereas the corresponding option "Nearest point" attracts the position to the nearest random point which was passed several kms before. To make the navigation work in this case, I have to edit the track and delete all the previous points up to the current location for proper navigating.
Menion, have you found the possible explanation of this bug of the algorithm yet?
 

Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2015, 09:00:34 »
Hello 0709

to Point 3:
Understood, voted.

to Point 4:
Misunderstood, I only described for which purpuse the functionallity is important.
My test track, where I detect the problem, was veeeeery easy, see picture.


Is track navigator another app for navigation to test?

Thanks
 

Offline chbla

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 20:08:23 »
I second Track Navigator - it's pretty cool for Guidance, but only for that, no fancy stuff like Locus has.

However, maybe Menion could check it out and integrate some of the features, it works pretty good for this task.
 

Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 10:16:41 »
Hi

I tested TN with my  track, but I did not get any direction instruction. It tells me only the street name.
But its nice to hear that you can reproduce my observation in Locus.

Thanks


EDIT: TCX is the key. I will come back to you after testing
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 10:20:03 by Joachim Buhl »
 

Offline Joachim Buhl

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Re: Navigation Generator
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 10:36:37 »
Hi

I did the point by point jumping thing in Locus Beta and Normal Version and in both versions it is horrible.
Sometimes it jumps from point 9 to 21, sometimes from 6 to 19, sometimes from 9 to 10 and 6 to 7.
Menion, whats happening there?
That is a job stopper for Locus.

Bye