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Development => Discussion/New features => Navigation & Guidance => Topic started by: jusc on August 13, 2013, 19:32:50

Title: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on August 13, 2013, 19:32:50
I activated all possibilities for automatic display activation on tour. Than I used a recorded track for "track back" with guiding. But the display didn't wake up one time. Maybe I missunderstood something or it isn't for use with guiding?
Phone was Note 2.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on August 13, 2013, 20:10:58
Hi,
  in this case, are you using latest 2.14.1 version? There is also option (it's not in 2.14.0) to turn on screen when guiding! along track, so your case. Hmm as I think about it, it's probably not 100% clear, but you need to have enabled some sound/vibrate notification, to make this work.
Title: Re: AW: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on August 13, 2013, 21:48:30
Aha, ok. I will try it tomorrow. And the combination with sound will activate the display too?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on August 13, 2013, 22:05:13
with sound or vibration. There is need for some notification. And when this notification appear, Locus turn on display (if enabled). Without notification it do not work, because I thought that without notification is no real reason to turn on display. Anyway this is probably not best solution, at least because it's not clear ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on August 14, 2013, 08:02:57
To say it with U2:  "I still haven´t found what I´m looking for".  (<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1XXs7e7ac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1XXs7e7ac)<!-- m -->)  <!-- s:mrgreen: -->:mrgreen:<!-- s:mrgreen: -->
Is it possible to take any track (not route) and to get only significant notifications messages or "screen wake ups" p. e. only  for turns or at road crosses?
This morning I got every 2 seconds a notification and the display switch always on a  road that I had to follow only straight.

edit August 16, 2013, 13:37:03
sorry, to come back. But I need a bit help.  I only want to follow a track and the display should become activated only on important turn directions (navigation to turn left, right etc.)  Exists there any documentation how the display automatic activation works? Or can someone explain it?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on August 16, 2013, 14:30:04
sorry jusc, I was little bit busy on other tasks and completely forget to answer.

For this exists feature that is not yet finished and documented, but it works. In menu > settings > guiding, enable notification on Tracks. Mainly "Notify on next point" and enable notification over TTS, this is essential. Then it should works correctly. Locus try to calculate next turns and notify by this.

count that this function is still not perfect. Little bit complicated to setup and also not too precise in terms of calculating possible turns
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on August 30, 2013, 20:55:06
I tried this yesterday but it didn't work  :(
Any further hints?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on September 02, 2013, 05:56:12
Did you read this post http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3318.msg22962#msg22962 ?

Was it helpful? If no, please try to describe a little more what you do, with which settings, and what do not work. Thanks
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on September 02, 2013, 21:29:39
I red the post carefully and made all the setting you described: notification on; sound beep; change to next point: 100;....

May be i'm wrong...?
Automatic display activation means not only when waypoints are available even when the the track turns left or right...
Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on September 03, 2013, 22:09:37
Hello Christian

Are you German? Maybe I can help in german, language barrier, you know.
For me it is working.


edit
 Answers moved to german board...
-> http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3377.0
- gynta
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on October 23, 2013, 14:20:21
I innervate this thread because Joachim showed me the setting i have to activate for notification (in german thread, but no further assistance).

- Global
: Control on /off screen is on (all 4 items)

-Guiding
: Notification enabled
: all other settings for notifications are default

-on Map: guiding for the track is on

The Problem is:
the device is beeping all the time because of notification of the waypoints, the screen is activated all the time and consumes a lot of power
If i switch off  notification for waypoints no sound is played but no notification occurs :-(
For turns or junctions there is no notification at all!
I tried different seetings on different tours but without success.

This is very frustrating and i hope that someone can help me.
I would like to use this feature because it seems very useful for mountainbike tours (no hand free) and saving power and focus on biking...

Is there anybody out there?
Thanx,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on October 23, 2013, 14:40:59
yes, I'm here :)

please share for me some short GPX track. Also tell me what you expect to happen (what to hear mainly). I'll test it and tell you what's need to set. Maybe there is some bug, so we should discover this ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on October 23, 2013, 15:43:50
Mail is sent.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on October 23, 2013, 17:21:42
ok, thanks so ...

1) your track is some recorded track, so it contains quite a lot of points. In this case isn't best using "notification on next point".
2) there is currently no way how to enable exact voice instructions on this track, because locus do not support OFFLINE routing.
3) anyway you may try to use new feature available in testing version "Navigation generator". Here is discussion about this topic http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.0
4) if you want to use public version, you may try to enable "notification on next point" and enable TTS support. This feature will be removed in time, "Navigation generator" will be published in public version anyway it's usable now
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on October 23, 2013, 18:30:00
Hello

Hopefully Menion you do not mean, that you want to replace the "old" guiding along a track with the new "Navigation generator"?!
Because this means we have to live with navigation mode and nasty magnetic behavior and no turning map (compass).
Than Locus would be dead for offroad navigation.

Bye
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on October 23, 2013, 18:44:41
hmm, yes I want .. bad idea you say? Fine, I'll keep this in my mind ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: tommi on October 23, 2013, 22:15:41
I understand it would be good to see the actual position as well (or as an alternative to the magnetic behaviour).

@Joachim: if you record a track in parallel to navigation you can see the actual position as the current end point of the track (provided recording strings for an accurate track).
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on October 24, 2013, 09:25:17
Hello Tommi

Lets discuss it further in this thread to keep this one clean.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.new;topicseen#new

Thanks
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on October 24, 2013, 09:51:13
ok, thanks so ...

1) your track is some recorded track, so it contains quite a lot of points. In this case isn't best using "notification on next point".
2) there is currently no way how to enable exact voice instructions on this track, because locus do not support OFFLINE routing.
3) anyway you may try to use new feature available in testing version "Navigation generator". Here is discussion about this topic http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3372.0
4) if you want to use public version, you may try to enable "notification on next point" and enable TTS support. This feature will be removed in time, "Navigation generator" will be published in public version anyway it's usable now

->1) lot of WP are usual for all of my (downloaded) tracks. turning off  "notification on next point" means no notification at all .-)

->2) beeping instead of TTS would be enough (btw: different sounds for "right" or "left" would be great in one of the upcoming versions)

->3) nice that you working on this and other related problems. I will be a faithful user but not a beta tester. Sorry - there is no time left.

->4) i will try this setting again and read the other thread carefully

Thanx for your effort,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Max on April 20, 2014, 12:08:21
Sorry for posting in this old thread. Is there anything new concerning this topic?

I want to use Locus for the same purpose as Christian: Downloading mountainbike gpx tracks and following them. I bought Locus because I was told Locus was able to turn on the display when there is a significant change in direction of the track. However... either there are no notifications at all, or it is beeping all the time.

What I had in mind was that maybe the Guiding algorithm could evaluate the angle between the the lines connection the previous and current track point and the current and the upcoming point. And when the angle between those lines is significantly smaller than 180 degrees, this is considered a turn and the user could be notified. But I am absolutely no expert on this...

So another question: I used the website gpsies.com to edit tracks. There is an option to add "turning notifications" to the track. Is there a way to let Locus use those notifications? I tried exporting the track with added turning notifications as GPX route file. But it did not seemed that Locus did not use those notifcations. Is there maybe a way to let Locus use them. This would be a workaround for me and probably for a lot of other mountainbikers who want to follow tracks.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 20, 2014, 12:51:10
Max is faster in posting than me.
I have been wanting to describe the same problem again because its still alive. Using the guiding feature in most of the cases the display remains dark when a junction is ahead. Only the notification "away from track" works, often better then needed (depends on GPS signal strength).
So i don't remember very well but have in mind that guiding should be improved by menion. Am i wrong?
Another problem is that guiding consumes a lot of power. My Galaxy Note needs ~60% more power when guiding than without guiding. Without notification i have to activate the display manually and have to scroll around to have a look where to go. Needs even more power.
That means guiding become useless :(
Any hints for this?
Enjoy the holidays and let the rabbit run :)
Christian

*posting in this "old" forum via Tapatalk is very nice compared to the new one 8)

edit
There are some news regarding guiding feature?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 01, 2014, 20:57:43
@max: You wrote about need to compute possible angles and notify about them. It's already possible. Just tap on track on map and at bottom panel choose "Navigate". You should see screen called "Navigation generator", that allows you to generate navigation for whole track. So Locus will work as an "real" voice navigator.

@christian: no news here. To be true, I'm little bit lost in this topic. I tried to read it one, but same :)

So what is wrong and what is expected?

Just two notes

- turn on screen during guiding should work for notification "Too far from track", but also for a notify on next point. It won't work for you?

- power consumption - you wrote 60% more, but more compare to what? To situation without guiding? If Locus do not need GPS, for example for guiding, then GPS is turned off when you hide locus or turn off the screen. Because 'Guiding' needs GPS, it will consume quite a lot more power.


Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 01, 2014, 22:49:51
Hi menion,
Notification works only for "away from track" and "next point".  Display wake up before next turn / junction does'nt work :(
So i have to turn on display manually each time when guiding.  Guiding consumes a lot of power (last 5h) compared to use Locus with GPS always on and automatic display dimming (last 12h).
I dont need navigation generator. Cannot hear the voice while on bike and display is always on :(
The guiding feature is a really nice function if it works... Is the most used feature in Locus by me. Please make it work!
Thanx,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 02, 2014, 06:53:07
Notification works only for "away from track" and "next point".  Display wake up before next turn / junction does'nt work :(

Sorry, I still do not understand. "Next turn / junction" during guiding? There is no such feature now.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 02, 2014, 11:37:49
Is there a misunderstanding (of the software)?
I expect that Locus wake up the display automatically when a turn or a junction or a major changing in direction is ahead - even without any waypoint.
Am i wrong?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on May 02, 2014, 11:49:34
I expect that Locus wake up the display automatically when a turn or a junction or a major changing in direction is ahead - even without any waypoint.

+1
You are right. ;D  That´s the best way between saving battery and being informed on the route while cycling or hiking.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 02, 2014, 12:07:04
yes you are wrong. Locus has no idea about roads, junctions etc. that are on your way. It's same as if you remove map and see only track on white background. Active track contains everything Locus knows. No more.

So if you enable "Navigation", then Locus should turn on screen on every navigation order (junction/...) that is in navigation itinenary. If you use "Guiding", then Locus should turn on screen when you leave track (if you have enabled notification on leaving a track) or on notification on next point (if you have enabled this notification).

If my answer is not precise, feel free to specify question better. I'll gladly answer.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 02, 2014, 13:50:06
Ooops, thats the first time in my life that i  wrong in my expectations ;)
Your answer is very clear and straight. Thanx for that.
My expectations were forced by Joachim in this post http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3377.msg23577.msg#23577 (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3377.msg23577.msg#23577)

He described that an algorithm computes angles between trackpoints and generates  notifications.

Ok, this feature does not exist yet.
So i will do a feature request in the new forum in this way:
Please @menion, make a "navigation light" feature with display dimmed but automatically wake up, no computed voice notifications (not only deactivated), and notifications when junction, turn or major changes in directions are ahead!

Any further suggestions?


Btw: why are navigation and guiding features are separated?
It seems guiding is a (simple) part of navigation.

Christian

Edit: thanx @jusc for supporting the idea.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 02, 2014, 13:53:02
No, it exists :)

Imagine you have own recorded track, or track imported from GPX, right? So simple track that has no idea where are any crosses, junctions etc. Display this track on map, tap on any of it's point and on new bottom panel tap on "Navigation", not "Guiding"! You should now see new small screen with title "Generate navigation" and after you confirm it, Locus generates navigation order for a whole track!
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 02, 2014, 14:03:10
I know the navigation feature. But its a over engineering for wake up the display...
I don't need any navigational orders.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on May 02, 2014, 15:04:22
I want to use Locus for the same purpose as Christian: Downloading mountainbike gpx tracks and following them. I bought Locus because I was told Locus was able to turn on the display when there is a significant change in direction of the track. However... either there are no notifications at all, or it is beeping all the time.

@menion,
most of cyclists want to get an information (with a beep that can be switched off) but that draws attention to the display that switched on if you leave the track and if there are significant changes in direction of the track.
Wasn´t it already implemented with Willys navigation orders? I have in mind, that it should be possible to get navigation instructions depending of the degrees the way differs from "straight"


Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 02, 2014, 15:10:54
maybe I finally got it.

Simply say - you need to turn on Navigation on track, but this navigation won't say any texts, but will only notify by beep or vibrate, right?

Son imagine you use new system of "Navigation generator", but instead of "Voice orders", you get only notifications. Rest remain same, like turn on screen etc. It's what you both talk about? Maybe I finally understand :)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: ppiter on May 02, 2014, 19:07:10
Hi Christian,

yes, this feature already exists. Feature is desciped in 'Brouter and Locus' from Tommi on a question from me. It works fine on all tracks generated by yourself, by Brouter or for downloaded tracks.

You need aTTS engine to generate voice navigation. As result you get navigation hints like 'turn right in 50m'. I have had no hints in mobile phone until I updates Google Text to speech. But now feature works fine. Perfekt for riding MTB in unknown terrain.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on May 02, 2014, 19:14:35
The question is, does Locus switch on the display at all "route" changes, like "turn right" too, if the display was off before?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 03, 2014, 11:29:44
in this case, so i you use 'Navigation generator', then yes. It should turn on display on all places, where is generated any navigation command.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 03, 2014, 16:21:42
maybe I finally got it.

Simply say - you need to turn on Navigation on track, but this navigation won't say any texts, but will only notify by beep or vibrate, right?

Son imagine you use new system of "Navigation generator", but instead of "Voice orders", you get only notifications. Rest remain same, like turn on screen etc. It's what you both talk about? Maybe I finally understand :)

Yes, you got it! :)
Can you make it work? (without the overkill of the navigation generator?

@ppiter: please read my posts more carefully otherwise the mess is completed...  :'(

Have a nice weekend,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 03, 2014, 16:37:08
navigation generator will be required in all cases. Only possibility I see in some settings, that say if navigation notification should be done with Text-to-speech (voice commands) or by simple notification ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 03, 2014, 17:59:58
i played around with the navigation gen and noticed that the fallback of the navigation is a kind of guiding very similar to my request. see attachement.

It seems the functions exists but it can be more useful ;D
I don't need the icons and the track should have the color and line style of the folder where the track is called from.
The commands - simultanously with waked up display - can be beeps. Different beeps for left, right and straight  or configurable sound would be very nice.
The arrow line to the next trackpoint (not in screenshot) should be kept 'cause its very helpful.
Filter like in navigation (hight, medium, low) shoud be kept also.
The battery consumtion should be similar to pure guiding.


Lets call this "guiding with navigational points".
dreaming,
Christian

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on May 04, 2014, 11:56:35
Hello All

Nice to see that more and more mountainbiker find their way to Locus.

I agree with Christian, that the the "Navigation generator" is overkill and in my opinion totally useless, sorry.
Generating turn instructions by the angle of the track will never be precise enough.

I also agree with Christian, that there should be the opportunity to choose between TTS turn instructions and simple beep for the next turn (different beeps for different directions is not needed in my opinion, but anyway).

This leads me to the following scenario:
If I want to follow a track with the mountainbike I choose openandromap with MTB theme in Locus.
Than I add an new route within Locus following the loaded GPX track. This is 20min additional work, but I get a clean track on the paths and I get turn instructions only when I need them.
Afterwards I'm starting navigation on this route. Automatic display off is working, the screen wakes up before turns, you get notification when you are off the track and with a feature of beeping you could choose between TTS and beeping.
Right now you have also the opportunity to delete turn instructions single by single, for example for a piece of the tour which you really know well and where you do not need any instructions.

I think for the "perfect" navigation for mountainbiking three things are missing right now:
Short term:
1. Beep notification instead of TTS
2. Adding manual turn instructions, because sometimes Mapquest missed some. This could be done by introducing text to speech feature to points where I can note "turn right..." in a specific field.
Long term:
3. Automatic rerouting of a GPX file so I do not have to reroute it with Mapquest manually.

Thanks


Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 06, 2014, 12:24:56
Nice to see that more and more mountainbiker find their way to Locus.
Joachim, you are right. The bikers - and hikers also - should establish a strong lobby here in forum because the Geocachers becoming more and more. And Locus changes more to a geocache tool i'm not interested in.  :o

Than I add an new route within Locus following the loaded GPX track. This is 20min additional work, but I get a clean track on the paths and I get turn instructions only when I need them.
I don't understand how do you prepare for your trip... Can you please explain this more detailed?

Afterwards I'm starting navigation on this route. Automatic display off is working, the screen wakes up before turns, you get notification when you are off the track and with a feature of beeping you could choose between TTS and beeping.
Right now you have also the opportunity to delete turn instructions single by single, for example for a piece of the tour which you really know well and where you do not need any instructions.

I think for the "perfect" navigation for mountainbiking three things are missing right now:
Short term:
1. Beep notification instead of TTS
2. Adding manual turn instructions, because sometimes Mapquest missed some. This could be done by introducing text to speech feature to points where I can note "turn right..." in a specific field.
Long term:
3. Automatic rerouting of a GPX file so I do not have to reroute it with Mapquest manually.

Thanks

This is a lot of work to prepare a trip... Sometimes i'm in the middle of nowhere and have to change my trip due to weather or time issues. So i load a track from within the track manager and let Locus guiding me to the next target. So 20min preparation of something and edit nav points manually is a little bit... over engineering..

But your items 1 and 3 are absolutely right.
Different beeps for left and right are very useful. If you are pedaling in a road biking group / peloton, everbody can listen to the sound coming out of th leader's garmin device and knows to turn left or right in 100 meters. Its a matter of speed and safety.

Any further suggestions? Should we open a new thread for avanced guiding / giuding with navigational points?
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: szebenyib on May 06, 2014, 14:42:07
Different beeps for left and right are very useful.
Christian

Another biker checking in :-)
That sounds like a great idea!

Ui: I'm also a hiker, geocacher, so these things are not against each other but rather complementary ;-)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 22, 2014, 17:56:44
After that heavy brainstorming and collection of ideas should i do a feature request for a "navigation generator light" with all the simple guiding features described above?
What do you think folks?
Enjoy the Schafskälte ;)
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Max on July 01, 2014, 17:07:22
I have the perfect solution: I bought another mount for my additional 5200 mAh Battery and this way I can keep the display on all of the time :D

@menion:
I agree with Joachim that the Navigation feature is not really applicable for mountainbike purpose because it does not recognize turns in the right way.

However, I think that a small change to the Guiding feature could make it useful for mountainbikers who want to follow a track. There are are websites like the german gpsies.com. They let you create/modify gpx files and you can add "turning notifications" at certain points. So if the guiding feature could recognize those "turning notifications" and just wake the display up/beep on those points and not on all waypoints, this would probably satisfy most mountainbikers.
To implement such a feature, the track format will somehow have to support different type of waypoints or some additional data, to distinguish regular waypoints and turning points. I have no clue, if gpx supports that kind of information.

This way, you would have to modify the downloaded gpx tracks before following them. But I guess an automatic navigation based on the angle between waypoints will never get satisfactory results for the kind of tracks you follow by mountainbike.

@Joachim:
This leads me to the following scenario:
If I want to follow a track with the mountainbike I choose openandromap with MTB theme in Locus.
Than I add an new route within Locus following the loaded GPX track. This is 20min additional work, but I get a clean track on the paths and I get turn instructions only when I need them.

I am also interested in what you mean by that. Probably a similar thing that I described... modifying a gpx track by adding manual turn notifications.. just in locus and not on a third party website. But its just a fictional scenario, so you cannot do that by now, right?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on July 01, 2014, 17:41:45
After that heavy brainstorming and collection of ideas should i do a feature request for a "navigation generator light" with all the simple guiding features described above?
What do you think folks?

Nice idea, I would support it.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: szebenyib on July 01, 2014, 18:26:58
+1, put it on the help site :-)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on July 02, 2014, 12:52:31
@Max: "always on" is not a solution even with external battery. I tried this...

And i would prefer a more clever solution than adding nav instructions to track manually...
Working with angles can be nice idea.

Declaring this as a request will happen on next weekend.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Max on July 03, 2014, 16:30:37
@Max: "always on" is not a solution even with external battery. I tried this...

And i would prefer a more clever solution than adding nav instructions to track manually...
Working with angles can be nice idea.

Declaring this as a request will happen on next weekend.

The battery thing was just a joke, as it is not really the solution we are looking for :) But with my old HTC desire and my 5200 mAh external battery I can actually go for approx. 4 h, which is enough for me.

The angle thing won't work realiably, because there will be a lot of curves which are not really turns, but still have a lower angle than some actual turns. For example, imagine a Y-junction which you enter from the one-road-side. The track will be almost straight through that junction and so it won't be recognized as a turn unless you lower the angle criterion so much that your phone will be constantly beeping everytime you follow a slightly curved track.
The only way an automated generation can work, is by using underlying map data to evaluate if there is a turn. But thats probably hard to implement.

Coming back to the manual notifications that you can add in gpsies... I just opened one of my gpx tracks that I generated on gpsies.com in oruxmaps. The additional turning informations which are actually GPX-Waypoints are shown on the map. So it seems that a GPX track can have additional GPX waypoints in it and they are somehow distinguished from the other trackpoints that make up the route.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on July 06, 2014, 20:10:49
Willy put a lot of information in this thread and it seems he spend some time to research the demandings of the nav generator. Good job! And yes...there are a lot to do in Locus.
From the attached proposal .doc:
"And as a overall statement: Locus Guiding should provide correct turn indications and behave as Locus Navigation."

The requirements remains the same (see thread above). About sounds / morse codes we will discuss later. I would prefer arbitrary sounds.
I understand that navigation orders can only be generated with a "underlaying" map. So the new " nav gen guide light" has to be a part of the existing nav generator already implemented in Locus.
Tomorrow i will put it to the new forum / wishlist.

Enjoy the evening,
Christian

 
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on July 20, 2014, 16:19:07
Hi guys,
busy days are over and the feature request is now there:
http://help.locusmap.eu/responses/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds

Thanx to all collecting ideas in this thread especially to 0709 for test and dealing with sounds.
So feel free to support the new idea.
If there are any blurs don't hesitate to write in this thread or on the new help site.

Regards,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on July 21, 2014, 22:22:28
Automatic screen off should work if the user does not work on the display. Otherwise it is wrong. It works for me perfectly (independent of time set).

I deactivated the proximity sensor in Locus 'cause it doesn't work reliable.

hth,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on August 11, 2014, 17:50:17
Obviously no one. Compliment for your patient while testing.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: szebenyib on August 14, 2014, 18:05:11

NEW Proposal extra functionality.
Locus Auto Screen OFF TIMER:  xx seconds.   Free user xx seconds setting.
Locus Gesture Control: 1x (MTB/handlebar) or 2x wave (Hiking) : Free user setting.



Maybe that can be included in tracking profiles to avoid manual switching.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: gynta on August 16, 2014, 21:55:05
can't vote - there are two ideas :)
...and one of them ("1x wave") sounds critical (maybe too sensitive):
maybe i can test it...
Is there an known App with "one wave action" to check it - on the road - with the mobile on the handlebar?
or can i test it with mobile onboard features?
...sorry for stupid questions ;)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Sersus on August 26, 2014, 14:21:52
Sorry for my bad English at first.
Im starting from the idea of voice guiding along tracks. I think there is no need to manual adding of turn instructions in track in Locus because currently it depends on rotation angle, so when I want to exactly hear "bear left" before determined turn I am specially do more sharp angle in that place. Thats all.
"Away from track" notification is already presented in Locus.
"Morse code instead of TTS"? Hmmmm.... Why?

But "Twice gesture control" will be a great function with a phone mounted on handlebar! Along with control of duration of screen time within Locus itself!

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6736/49727497.2a/0_dbf7a_f9c892f7_M.jpg) (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/mrbaxmypka/view/900986)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on September 30, 2014, 18:14:15
OK: Auto Screen on/off functionality.
Ahhh, thats nice to read! Thanx for report.(i'm not a beta tester...)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on October 12, 2014, 20:51:42
Nearly same settings. But i have not use guiding since my last poor experiences. So i'm waiting for a navigator light with automatic display on ;)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on November 09, 2014, 12:35:05

Display setting: Control on/off screen enabled-> Enable set up to your personal preferences.
Mine: Wave once (bikemount) and turn off if iddle for 15 seconds ! Always screen on. Disable lock screen enabled. (Locus as service.)

I´m not sure if I understand this:
Screen always on is always on.  So I can´t test a "Wave once" function.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on November 09, 2014, 13:09:25
Thanks I found a solution for this:
Display / Display always on / Specify /during guide/navigation .
(in general settings I switched on Air gesture)
At the moment it works in front of my desk.  ;D

But second problem : Switching to speech "Samuel" doesn´t give me a beep back, So I only get a "Process successful".
Main speech in (main) settings" is set Google. In Locus (Laguages & Units) in text to speech is Google to speech)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on November 09, 2014, 15:44:11
@Willy

thanks again.
It works on the S2 (my bike phone)  not on Note 2. On S2 there is no TTS installed. So I have to look at it a bit more.
Another question, the Samsung phones have a hardkey home button. So I was able to switch on the display during cycling by presing the home button and there ist no need for waves, at least for me.
Does "Automatic display activation" work without "waveing"?


Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Sersus on November 10, 2014, 06:57:05
Menion, I think the "Control on\off screen" with activated gestures must have another menu such as simple "Turn on time" for common control of screen on time. I mean the possibility to simple activate the screen by gestures for necessary time.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on November 10, 2014, 10:28:26
Users here possibly can confirm that to find and trying out all possible Locus variations one needs more time than exercising all variations from the 'Kama Sutra'.  Wich of both let you feel most excited in the end = matter of personal taste ;-)

 ;D nice
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on November 13, 2014, 17:45:29
Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. :(
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on March 09, 2015, 19:43:37
Hi guys,
busy days are over and the feature request is now there:
http://help.locusmap.eu/responses/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds

Thanx to all collecting ideas in this thread especially to 0709 for test and dealing with sounds.
So feel free to support the new idea.
If there are any blurs don't hesitate to write in this thread or on the new help site.

Regards,
Christian

Yesterday i did the first road bike tour with the crowd. One of the guys used his garmin and on most junctions we were wrong.
So I tried to show the guys how Locus works and missed two junctions also due to missing the display is not activated automatically :(
Keep the finger always on the home button is very dangerous when you in peloton!

The feature request on help site has 21 votes up to now. http://help.locusmap.eu/responses/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds (http://help.locusmap.eu/responses/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds)

@menion... Menion....MENION!!!
Please help! This is the most wanted and most useful feature in this universe.
Count on you!
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on March 09, 2015, 19:53:50
This sounds really desperate ...

I have current week full, sorry, but since start of next, I'll try to find out a while to at least perfectly what is going on here :).
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: chbla on March 10, 2015, 19:21:27
I talked to a lot of people lately and introduced locus to many mountainbikers and trailrunners.
What came up quite a lot of times (when I started the discussion) is that many of them could make a lot of use to audible signals of some kind. Some of them are even using TCX training files already.

I think it would be not too difficult to implement a larger subset of the .tcx format, since there is already basic support?
It contains only around 16 signs afaik and the structure is really simple.
This would be a great start. My main problem when mountainbiking is as Christian mentioned implicitly, the battery. You cannot switch on the screen all the time because it drains too quickly.
However, if you would have audible signals (very simply based on the .tcx files which every use can download or create) and a quick "flash" of the display turning on, this really dramatically improves navigation in my eyes (especially if you have longer rides, downhill, etc).

I personally would like a tool that let's me:

1. Plan tracks with brouter
2. Automatically adds turn instructions (turns greater than X degrees) to the cue sheet
3. Automatically adds coursepoints for junctions (turn left/right) to the cue sheets

Then use this track in Locus, applying a voice profile that uses only very short signals (so I don't even have to look at the display). Activates the display for a specified amount of time and let's me set at what distance it does this (50m before, etc). The benefit of using tcx is that it has been widely adopted already, there are some tools for it and there are a lot of tracks out there.

This would be the ideal navigation solution - however, it should not be confused with street navigation which in my eyes is an entirely different topic.

So far, that's my dream :) Unfortunately I cannot really do this right now (point 2. and 3. above also only work semi-automatically and not with existing tracks.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on March 26, 2015, 17:41:28
Menion has implemented this requested feature, See help desk (http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds#comment-15268).  :D
Unfortunately i'm not a beta tester of upcoming versions. So can please anybody interested keep an eye of the new beta and report about here?

Thank you,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on March 27, 2015, 16:23:56
Just arrived version 3.7.1.2, but there are no informations about this feature.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on March 27, 2015, 17:06:51
no info? hmm. Main change:

Previous version:
Track which is imported from GPX or recorded by Locus - so track without navigation instructions with a lot of trackpoints. You enable "Guidance"  (previously just Guide). And when "Notify on next point" is enabled, Locus notify on every change of trackpoint, so almost everytime, right?

Current version:
Same track and you enable "Guidance". Locus now use generator and create waypoints on places, where should be any marginal change of track direction. Notification will be then performed only on these interesting places!
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: jusc on March 27, 2015, 17:30:48
@menion,
oh, sorry, I didn't understand it correctly and must apologize. I looked for keywords of (automatic) display activation.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on March 27, 2015, 17:37:24
absolutely no problem. I'm sure that this change is not absolutely clear and may not even be visible, but if I correctly understand topic on help desk, this is close to what you and others needed, right? With existence of "navigation generator" in Locus, this is finally possible and I can't understand, how Locus may exists without this feature before. Notification and "turn on display" should be now finally usable in guiding mode, because only when track change direction, notification appear. And not as before, every 10 metres (in case of recorded track with trackpoint every 10 m).
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on March 27, 2015, 18:19:58
not seen yet but it sounds like requested :)
Yippieeeeh!

Quote from: menion
I can't understand, how Locus may exists without this feature before
Yes, me too... and i expected that this feature was already implemented  :o
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on March 27, 2015, 18:25:40
fine ... and no, it wasn't. It was impossible to do it, because there were no "Navigation generator" which now thanks to You @tommi (sorry) and @0709 exists ... and works quite well I think.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 10, 2015, 22:30:25
After loading the Beta with new Guidance module:
First quick test was here (http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4467.msg35822#msg35822).
Today second test with roadbike and peloton. And... automatic display activation works like a charm! .
Thanx menion for implementing this :) Today was the first trip with (nearly) fingerless usage of Locus. Absolutely great!
I missed two junction only due to small volume of beeps at the beginning. So no worries.
But "away from track"-notification doesn't work reliably. Sometimes no beeps :(
Checked and unchecked "intelligent guidance"-feature and it works as expected. And has no influence on guiding commands (keep right, turn left a.s.o). So the module is not more intelligent than me  :P
Guiding commands are hard to apprehend. Have to observe this...


First stage: passed.
Second stage: battery drain, sound and beauty culture.

battery drain:
I noticed that if the road going like a snake the display is on continously and beeps going all the time. Means instead of 30s display time (my preferred setting) and 1 or 2 beeps the display is activated for minutes and beeps sound all the time. See Screenshot 1. This is heavy battery drain beacause snaky roads or trails are my prefered ways. Can Locus recognize that successive curves are no junctions and stay quietly?
On the other hand if you are in a peloton going fast you have to know where to go in a timely manner. Coming to a junction and track is going straight ahead you have to wait until you are in right distance (100m for alert - this is quite too short with the crowd in your nack) and waiting for display and beep. Differnt settings (profiles for hiking, running, MTb, road bike) for notification in different distances depending on average speed would be nice.
If the display remains black you are wrong or you have to follow the road...  In this case i would prefer to have a activated display also regardless of battery drain (if you miss a junction or turn you have more battery drain 'cause you have to activate the display manually)

sounds:
Different sounds (for left / right / straight ahead)  would be absolutly wounderful.
And...to have the choice to let Locus activate the display automatically OR let the display blank and be guided only by sounds would be the killer feature. I guess this would be analogue with the guiding commands. So the commands must be precise.

beauty culture:
if guidance is activated the track style and the track itself disappear. Only blue line from navigation is displayed. No arrows no elevation info :(
And I found no possibility to catch and tap the track (only "navigation") to get some info from popup or call the detail page.
Tap the pseudo track ("navigation" with guiding commands) following info in diagram is displayed. See Screenshot 2.
I'm not interested in this command icon soup covering the right information  :o

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 11, 2015, 08:05:01
Hello Christian,

nice test, thanks.

"Away from track" - this notification may appear just once since you left a track and is computed on the perpendicular to the road, so maybe you have setup too big distance value for this settings?

"Intelligent guidance" - http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4506.msg35978#msg35978 :)

"Too often commands" - two solutions
 - in settings > guidance > advanced settings > amount of alerts and reduce this value
 - or open track, in bottom menu choose copy and "generate navigation" and make a copy. This will create and store track with generated waypoints. You may then delete unwanted instructions directly on a map or with latest beta even add new or edit existing

"Sounds" - yep, another step that awaits ...

"Beauty" :). - "icon soup" - agree that these waypoints on a chart are not always needed. Added a new option to chart settings that allows to disable this. What you also looking for - option to display original track screen - if you guidance/navigation where navigation generator generates completely new track with commands, then original track is temporary hidden
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 11, 2015, 14:23:18
Thank you for your quick answer.
If I decrease the amount of alerts the amount of commands will also be decreased?

To have a solution without a new track for navigation would be wonderful. May be it is possible to write all commands temporarily in thr original track in db?

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 11, 2015, 14:40:39
alerts, commands, instructions - it's all same. When you start guide on a track without existing commands (like track generated by MapQuest), Locus use internal navigation generator and create a temporary waypoints. Guidance feature then notify on places where these waypoints exists. So yes, if you decrease amount of generated commands, you will also get a less alerts :).

You may write all commands manually into GPX file or you may create them manually before you start your ride. In latest beta version is possible to "convert" any trackpoint to navigation waypoint with command (in tools menu of "edit on map"). So you may prepare everything before ride. But more about this may be already read in different topic, like this: http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4506 I think ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 14, 2015, 18:07:50
Third test while trail running with smartphone in my hand. Guiding works!
Today i set "numbers of alerts" to "low" and "missed" some junctions - not really missed 'cause i know the way. After running i created a copy of the track with commands (attached) and had a look into it.
I noticed that some waypoint are wrong or unnecessary and makes me wired.
Wrong means = i.e. "keep right" in front of a junctions, but the right command should be "straight on" or nothing. (see wrong_1) i.e.  @ 48.039008°N, 11.378582°O .
Wrong means also = miss two commands on path on a junction going short right and than left. After this situation there is a command "keep left" :( (see wrong_2) i.e.  @ 48.034783°N, 11.364872°O
Unneccesary means = Path is going quite straight and w/o any junctions, but commands are generated.(see unnecessary_3) i.e. @ 48.034560°N, 11.367620°O
If i'm guided "by display" i'm not worried about this, guided by sounds only will directly lead into serious errors.
So it needs still a little bit of tuning.

All waypoints created by Locus for commands had a wrong create time stamp = 1970-01-01 01:00:00. (The scary timestamp monster is crawling through the database again  :) )
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 16, 2015, 09:13:24
Hello Christian,

thank you for a test.

I think it is needed to keep in mind, how generating of waypoints in Locus works. Maybe tommi and 0709 (authors of this system), may give you more precise description, but I'll try it also.

Forget on what is in real along the track. Like display only blank map and place a track over it. This is all what Locus knows in moment, track is computed. And only thanks to shape of track are commands generated. So in case of first problem, track is really moving slightly to right. In case of second problem, small right and immediately left is so small (because you set "low" amount of commands), then this is ignored and only small curve to left is used. Same with third problem.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 16, 2015, 09:47:46
Hi menion,
I already know the system of blank map and the track over it.
But as human being I check it against the map.
So I'm interested in an appropriate solution.

Status sounds to me: use medium numbers of alerts and you have all alerts needed and in addition a lot of unnecessary waypoints and little bit of battery drain more therefore. If you use low numbers of alert you may will miss some junctions and sounds will not work reliably
Am I wrong? It's for my understanding only.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 16, 2015, 10:09:43
Yes, it is correct. For car navigation may be useful "low" value as there are usually not so short corners. For bike/hike is better "medium", in case of really complicated path should be useful "high".

Till Locus won't be able to in any way reuse map background directly, I see no solution, to adapt navigation commands to real situation on the road ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 16, 2015, 10:35:03
Ok. Thanks for explaining.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 22, 2015, 16:34:46
Quote from: Christian
First stage: passed.
Second stage: battery drain, sound and beauty culture.

Entering now the second stage after the last test yesterday. Test was successfully on trails figured like a "8" but heavy to predict where to go due to the missing arrows on the track (and usually used track styles for elevations and now altitude gradient).

Track styles:
There are the first complaints in german thread about track style in Guidance. So @menion can you please care about this?
Your approach:
Quote from: menion
What you also looking for - option to display original track screen - if you guidance/navigation where navigation generator generates completely new track with commands, then original track is temporary hidden
The target should be not to use a additional track style, only the style defined as folder style or particular track style.

Sound:
i know the discussion about sound in the thread "navigation generator" and i'm aware that navigation and guidance are going to be merged. So I would like let the guys in this thread decide what kind of sound to be used in Navigation and Guidance. My preferences are: clear and unique sound for "left, "right" as different, highly recognizable beeps -  or better - simple triads as mp3 files.

Battery drain:
After six hours of using guidance on trails figured as "8" and a lot of beeps due to false alerts of "away from track" closed to a military area the battery was empty :( I'm not sure what can be improved : less rendering of track? tuned numbers of commands? I played around with settings and would like to ask an additional menu item in Guidance icon top left (when guidance is on) - there should be "settings" as item in menu also. I have to change some settings (numbers of alerts, value for "away from track", strict guiding, change to next point) every time i change the kind of sport and sometimes - like yesterday - during the ride multiple times. So it can be a useful shortcut for the user.

Apart from that - Guidance is a milestone in Locus and absolutely great!
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 24, 2015, 17:27:25
0709, lets have a look into the first post (http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds) where the request for "Automatic display activation = guiding with display and sounds" was written.
Milestone because the Automatic display activation while guiding is working now. (Little bit of tuning regarding the numbers of alerts is possible). Riding my bikes, waiting for display and beep and in 99,5% i'm happy.

Now we go ahead and hope the sound and track style are working soon.
I know you are involved in that heavy, high sophisticated and highly complicated Navigation Generator stuff - but here in this small Guidance-thread the things are more easy.
I'm not interested in any manually edited tcx-files, pimped tts-files or any "how to's" for solutions still to come. Sorry for that but i can't agree with you.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 27, 2015, 08:34:39
Question: color of tracks during guidance

What you expect?
- keep original color - will be clear which track is active?
- use color of folder? - why this, does it make a sense?
- use color from settings > misc - current approach
- use color from settings > guidance - probably most logical right?
- any other more logical idea?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: balloni55 on April 27, 2015, 08:37:51
Quote
- use color from settings > guidance - probably most logical right?
+1 8)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Hadubrand on April 27, 2015, 09:38:41
Question: color of tracks during guidance
- use color from settings > guidance - probably most logical right?
That's it, because the color of the guided track belongs to guidance.
But it would be great, if the line style might also be set in this context to have a possibilty to indicate the direction (e.g. any arrow style, because is often difficult to read the display of the smartphone in light surroundings quickly.
Greetings
Ulli
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: ta-ka on April 27, 2015, 10:16:13
But it would be great, if the line style might also be set in this context to have a possibilty to indicate the direction (e.g. any arrow style, because is often difficult to read the display of the smartphone in light surroundings quickly.
I also want line style setting for arrow type. If this idea is adopted, please take care to reverse arrow direction for reverse guidance.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Hadubrand on April 27, 2015, 10:28:16
Question: color of tracks during guidance
What you expect?
Here my opinion to all suggestions
- keep original color - will be clear which track is active?
For me this would be fine, because I follow only 1 track at a time and disable other tracks.
- use color of folder? - why this, does it make a sense?
For me OK, see above.
- use color from settings > misc - current approach
In my opinion not logical, because it deals with imported tracks
- use color from settings > guidance - probably most logical right?
My favourite but please with an option to set a line style - see my previous message.
- any other more logical idea?
Not at the moment.
Greetings
Ulli
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 27, 2015, 10:58:47
Common users like me use Locus and don't know what is computed in the background and whats the relations between the modules.
If a user choose a track from track list with its properties (always set, i.e. line style, ...) he expect that this properties are displayed in all cases.
Quote from: menion
What you expect?
- keep original color...
Thats the one and only solution: original track style.
Apart from that: arrows, gradient, altitude in line style are absolutely great. Why not to use it in Guidance???
But you can give users the choice which style they want to use. Default: original line style ;)

Quote from: menion
What you expect?
...- will be clear which track is active?
Thats another problem has to be solved separately. Do you remember my question about 'how to display multiple tracks at same time'? I guess i have to set up a request...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 27, 2015, 11:22:36
Yesterday i found some small issues in Guidance:
: beeps can not be heard when velocity is over 40 km/h, even if notification volume is on max. Is there a possibility that Locus overwrite the setting in Android for "volumes of notifications"?

: the day before the tour i prepared a track for guidance (copy of an existing track + commands). Than i had to delete all the unnessecary Nav WPs manually. Very cumbersome :( So I decided to delete the copy and use "change WP into Nav WP) instead and set all Nav WP manually in original track. Thats a lot faster! So this function is more worthy than the function setting NavWP integrated in Guidance :(
But did i commented that i'm not interested in preparing tracks manually?

: On tour we stopped on a Nav WP by change and had a break for ~20min. In this time the display was still activated even i switched off the display it was activated again automatically. I minimized Locus by home button but display was kept activated. I had to cancel Guidance to stop this heavy battery drain :( (calculation: display setting in Android = 30sec dimming + 30sec until getting blank. 20min display on is equal to 20 Nav WPs = ~ 35km. At the end of the day it lacks on battery)
So alerts for Nav WP should have a time out, i.e double or triple value from Android settings for dimming the display (if Locus can read this settings) or another value, i.e. 2min.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Hadubrand on April 27, 2015, 11:26:16
please take care to reverse arrow direction for reverse guidance.
Perfect!
Greetings
Ulli
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Andrew Heard on April 27, 2015, 12:05:57
But it would be great, if the line style might also be set in this context to have a possibilty to indicate the direction (e.g. any arrow style, because is often difficult to read the display of the smartphone in light surroundings quickly.
I also want line style setting for arrow type. If this idea is adopted, please take care to reverse arrow direction for reverse guidance.
+1
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Tim Finnegan on April 27, 2015, 20:33:10
Question: color of tracks during guidance

What you expect?
- keep original color - will be clear which track is active?

This one. And track style too - because of arrows ))

Is there any way to hide generated by guidance waypoints? In some tracks they interfere with my points that I added manually.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on April 27, 2015, 21:13:18
: On tour we stopped on a Nav WP by change and had a break for ~20min. In this time the display was still activated even i switched off the display it was activated again automatically. I minimized Locus by home button but display was kept activated. I had to cancel Guidance to stop this heavy battery drain :( (calculation: display setting in Android = 30sec dimming + 30sec until getting blank. 20min display on is equal to 20 Nav WPs = ~ 35km. At the end of the day it lacks on battery)
So alerts for Nav WP should have a time out, i.e double or triple value from Android settings for dimming the display (if Locus can read this settings) or another value, i.e. 2min.

Hmm interesting issue. I've never expected that someone stops directly on existing navigation waypoint and waits there for 20 minuts ... eh, you complicates me this feature :)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on April 27, 2015, 22:16:51
Nav Wps are placed on junctions in most cases, beergardens also and short breaks ;)
When damages happen to bikes... it happen near crossroads - so my experience.

Good to know that you read this thread frequently.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on April 27, 2015, 22:33:52
Hello Menion

Hopefully it's not a new information for you.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=4506.msg36241#msg36241

Bye
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: gruenerose on May 25, 2015, 23:11:46
Common users like me use Locus and don't know what is computed in the background and whats the relations between the modules.
If a user choose a track from track list with its properties (always set, i.e. line style, ...) he expect that this properties are displayed in all cases.
Quote from: menion
What you expect?
- keep original color...
Thats the one and only solution: original track style.
Apart from that: arrows, gradient, altitude in line style are absolutely great. Why not to use it in Guidance???
But you can give users the choice which style they want to use. Default: original line style ;)
.

I am looking for this too. My tracks are all set up to show alitude variance. As soon as I turn on guidance, the track is replaced by a 4px red line. I did not even set this in the default settings..I am able to change the Line width and color temporarily for guidance, but altitude variance does not work when I pick it from the menu.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 26, 2015, 08:50:22
Willkommen!
In last version there was a hugh improvement with line style and color but not perfect yet. In upcoming version it should work as expected even with altitude.
So be patient. ..
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Bucky Kid on May 31, 2015, 23:00:49
I have tasted today thoroughly both auto screen activation and keep screen on feature and realized that auto turn on timeout had preference over keep screen on.  That means if both are activated, screen turns off after delay set in auto display activation dialog. I find it not too logical, I find more intuitive keeping screen always on if the switch is ON regardless on auto screen activation.

Second note to auto screen on generally - activation is working as expected except screen off which is acting unexpectedly, I've got screen offs immefiately after notification. The screen off interval is not yet working too well.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 07:59:46
After two month of not using and testing guidance i prepared a track manually with Nav points *grmbl and started Guidance with v3.9.3. The display was always activated - never switched off - even without any wp. So i checked all settings mutiple times, set auto-turn off to 5s. Then the display switched off after 5s (without any nav wp) and then immediately switched on again :(
So I decided to deactivate Guidance for this trip and was ... frustrated.
Can anyone tell me something about my wrong settings? Or anything else?
What i have to set?

Thanx,
Christian
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: 0709 on June 25, 2015, 11:10:49
Always screen on: Disabled ? My settings in picture in attachment. Navigation ! As I do not use guiding.
If not using gesture control nor navigation no need for config.cfg changes. 
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: balloni55 on June 25, 2015, 13:00:17
Hi Christian,
guidance work for me, 10 sec. after i leave the navipoint area the screen switch off.
 my settings
(http://s14.postimg.org/ykggqk45p/Settings.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ykggqk45p/)
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 13:45:48
Thanx guys.
Settings are equal to my settings.
Locus is a wonderland. Had strange behaviors the last days even some crashs wich can not be reproduced ...
Will try again.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 25, 2015, 18:25:32
Really guidance, ok? What about your settings > guidance > advanced? May you post a screenshot?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 18:48:30
Advanced setting in GUIDANCE:
Strict
Low
Each trackpoint: deactivated

I did not change anything since beta pre 3.9.0 except auto turn-off.

(Can not post a screenshot in tapatalk :( )
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 25, 2015, 19:33:17
hmm interesting .. please tell me also your guidance > "Set next point" parameter. I'm testing it with default value 100 m, and it works quite well for me (simulation behind desk), damn.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 20:04:39
60m.
Was a good value during beta testing.
This value should not activate display, isn't?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: 0709 on June 25, 2015, 20:24:34
In Navigation the auto screen on/off function works perfect. As I do not use, nor test guiding, I now did only a very short first  guiding autoscreen on/off test. I have the impression that there is a screen on trigger on each trackpoint ? On Navpoints  additionaly there is that  notification sound.  No ?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 25, 2015, 20:28:17
Actually it should. Because this value say a distance when Locus switch to another trackpoint so a moment when Locus also turn on screen. Since that moment till you pass a changed trackpoint, Locus try to keep screen on. Anyway when you have defined 60 metres and when you have some own defined navigation waypoints, only from 60 to 0 metres before these waypoints!, screen should be turn on. Weird.

Looks to me a really similar to this issue: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/guidance-keeps-screen-on#comment-18249 , so there is definitely some problem I'm unable to simulate. Have to dig in deeper, thanks for now.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 25, 2015, 20:34:43
In Navigation the auto screen on/off function works perfect. As I do not use, nor test guiding, I now did only a very short first  guiding autoscreen on/off test. I have the impression that there is a screen on trigger on each trackpoint ? On Navpoints  additionaly there is that  notification sound.  No ?

Hmm this should happen only in case of enabled "Notify on every trackpoint".
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 20:53:05
....Looks to me a really similar to this issue: http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/guidance-keeps-screen-on#comment-18249 , so there is definitely some problem I'm unable to simulate. Have to dig in deeper, thanks for now.
Yes. Its similar. So I guess we have a bug :(
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 25, 2015, 21:11:05
Christian, are you willing to do a field test with special version that will print out extra information to log? Because I see absolutely no reason why this may happen :/
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 25, 2015, 21:48:00
Yes, next week I can test something.
Be aware I am using Android 4.1.1...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: 0709 on June 26, 2015, 09:31:58
Difference in Navigation and Guiding. See test circuit in picture. See Trackpoints and Navpoints.
(http://s13.postimg.org/enio7t0pv/To_Paardekop.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/enio7t0pv/)
A simulated drive at 36 kmh. Auto screen off setting 15 seconds.
Navigation: "config.cfg" setting, is single screen on 13 seconds before Navpoints.
See the you tube videos: Screen on/off  and audio records.
Locus Guiding TTS: https://youtu.be/LBKK85ptIHQ
Locus Navigation TTS: https://youtu.be/tWra8IUpPr4
(Black screen in video = auto screen off action ! = not a broken movie  !).
Guiding is very (too) dependent on available trackpoints.
Results in randomly and unreliable guiding and no-good screen on/off sequences.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 26, 2015, 10:05:08
Hmm nice videos, thanks. It works for you exactly as I should expect to work it. Unfortunately even you do not get any permanent "turn-onning" like Christian.

It me more and more force to really completely removing "guidance" from Locus (as was suggested few times on different places) and just improve navigation to allow some tuning like "remove big left navigation arrow from map screen" and "keep style of track". And well ... it's maybe only main difference why not to use "navigation" and use only "guidance", right?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Andrew Heard on June 26, 2015, 11:01:24
+1 to remove guidance & integrate those special settings with navigation, I've always found the difference a little confusing and unnecessary

I remember @Michal's comment in 3.8.0 news and had a laugh:

"The difference between route navigation and guiding is hopefully not necessary to be explained in detail."

hmmm
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: 0709 on June 26, 2015, 11:25:30
I think (hope) we all agree Navigation result is technically more performant. I also prefer the Navigation system presentation. The (ticker) track line with the  white arrowed section at navpoints deliver a fine "where to go to"  visual prealert . The bigger arrow-button has the right size for me to touch, and call the bigger sized function panel.  I prefer this above the very small guiding touchpanel during real operation. So the different opinion between navigation and guiding users only concerns the presentation and "cosmetics".
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Bucky Kid on June 26, 2015, 11:58:32
I have passed last trip using half a way guiding and half way heuristic navigation and for me the guiding (in terrain) is more convenient (including the audio notifications system). Only navigation feature I would welcome in guiding mode is auto display activation in some advance (~100m) before expected sharp turn, staying on up to the turn passed. However if there's enough pass through waypoints the screen is anyway on most of time. The screen on and audio alerts on next waypoint worked quite reliably. One question remaining is how auto display OFF should work together display always ON. I personaly vote for autodisplay ON overriding auto OFF option.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: 0709 on June 26, 2015, 14:04:21
@ Bucky Kid.

Source file ? Generated tcx file by Website as RWGPS or BRT or generated from Garmin program ? See picture reply 114.
Instructions by the Locus Generator: The original "hidden" track has 8 trackpoints, the helper track by internal generator has 22 trackpoints. Navpoints on helper track generated by the internal generator. (high).
See picture, same traject,
(http://s30.postimg.org/4umib3evx/Paardekop_generated_Navpoints.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4umib3evx/)
More trackpoints and trackpathrun position near turns changed. Not a lossless operation = lowfidelety ! Better guiding or unexpected feature when using internal generator ? As guiding is very dependent on available trackpoints.

Display always on. Works perfect. 
Condition: Screen on by Gesture control action. And in config.cfg:
# Disable "Turn off if idle" when screen was turn on by gesture (default: false)
turn_on_screen_by_gesture_disable_auto_screen_off=1

If screen is in on by a Gesture wave on, arriving at a Navpoint there is new screen on activation. But as screen was already on, no change.  After (15 sec, my setting) "screen off" a return to the previous screen state, from before arriving at the Navpoint, resulting in: screen stays on.

If screen on by Gesture on wave, you can drive all next Navpoints without a screen off ever. (until battery dies).

If screen was off by Gesture off wave, arriving at Navpoint there is screen on action and after (15 sec, my setting) a return to previous screen state or a screen off.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on June 28, 2015, 22:35:59
I was looking carefully on 0709 videos and as i wrote - it works as I expect it should work. Anyway it works quite weird :). Anyway because Christian also reported some issue which I do not know, why precisely it happen, in new version 3.9.3.3 is system for "turn on screen" changed a little bit. Now the key parameter is "set next trackpoint". When Locus gets closer then on this value (below this value), TTS + screen on happen. Till now, this was when Locus changed from previous point to new next point. As visible on video, if distance was too long, notification happen too soon and when you get to point, screen was already turned off. So useless ... I hope this will work a lot better.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on August 07, 2015, 19:35:16
Hello All

I read this thread, but I do not know what's the strategy of automatic display activation in navigation mode is right now.

My understanding:
1. We have a setting in config file: navigation_announcements_times=x|x|x
    This is the time before a navigation instruction at which the display is also activated, if this is activated in settings display activation.
2. Then we have a timeout (e.g. 20sec) after which the display is turned off automatically.

So if I set the times for announcements 20|40|60, the display is theoretically turned on 60sec and is off at the turn, right?

But..

3. There is the setting "Set next trackpoint" under settings of guiding that has influence on screen on in navigation mode?

When I set this to 10m, will the screen be activated 10m before the turn in every case? For how long (timeout from above 20sec?). Will the screen turned off 10m after the turn?

Please help me to understand.

Thanks

 

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on August 14, 2015, 06:37:55
3. nope, this settings is used only for guidance along track, not a navigation.

Anyway imagine you use guidance. Then everytime you get any notification (based on below "Set notification of next direction change"), then internal counter that count 20 seconds till "turn screen off" command is executed, is reset.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Joachim Buhl on August 14, 2015, 15:32:33
Hello Menion

Thanks for reply.
So in navigation mode its just the announcements defined in the config file and the display timeout of Locus, thats it, ok.

Currently I set it to 20|70 and a timeout of 10sec.

Besides that 20|70 is currently not the time Locus uses, it works well.
Around 20sec before the display turns on and you get a beep, so you can see, what to do next.
Around 5sec before the second announcement and with 10sec timeout the display is still on, when you do the turn.
Nice. Leave it like it is. Simple to use and customizable.

Thanks

PS.: Test it by yourself on your bike holidays. Have a nice trip. Where will you go to?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Bucky Kid on September 11, 2015, 20:15:33
Hello, I have suggestion to add more conditions when screen always on will activate:

- GPS fix is estabilished
- device is charged AND GPS fix is estabilished
- device is charged AND GPS is active
- device is charged AND on navigation/guiding
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 22, 2016, 17:23:28
3. nope, this settings is used only for guidance along track, not a navigation.

Anyway imagine you use guidance. Then everytime you get any notification (based on below "Set notification of next direction change"), then internal counter that count 20 seconds till "turn screen off" command is executed, is reset.

Hope this helps.

Looking for "Set notification of next direction change" in 3.17.x.
Is it gone?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 23, 2016, 07:45:01
Good day Christian, as I know, no settings was removed in latest version.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 23, 2016, 09:36:46
LOL
Good answer.
Ok, same question in different way.
How and where can i set the distance / time before next change / event occurs in guidance?

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 23, 2016, 09:50:12
Next question regarding guidance.
When Display is off and the next change in direction occurs the display is activated automatically. Fine!
But than map is displayed in any direction and after about 2-3 seconds map rotates than in the direction according to my settings in 'rotation of the map'. So i guess direction of the map is not computed during display is off.
Display off is set to 10s, map rotation needs 3s... that needs too much time.
Is there anything we can do?
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 26, 2016, 13:01:30
Hello Christian,

main key parameter for guidance that influence "when" Locus switch to next trackpoint is "Set next trackpoint" (in Guidance settings).

About rotation ... good observation. Locus filtered values from "before" screen turned off. I've fixed it now. Result is quite visible jump in rotation right after you turn screen on, but positive is, that you see it almost immediately. So "fixed", thanks.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 26, 2016, 14:57:39
Thank you.

Another question i forgot to ask:
Is planed to implement different signals for right / left / straight in guidance? I remember that we talked about in this thread...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 27, 2016, 20:20:35
You are welcome.

Hmm, such feature require some specific settings for all three options, right? Can't imagine now, how to simply do it ...
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 27, 2016, 21:09:20
Specific settings?
Like notification: beep / sound / vibration.

beep / sound can vary in three different signals / sounds if choosen....
And one option more: activate display _or_ 3 sounds as notification.

Imagine the smartphone mounted on handle bar or in pocket, display is off und you are guided by sounds. Would help to save battery.
Looks not so difficult... From my naive point of view.

Guidance becomes a very nice, easy and useful tool within Locus in cooperation with BRouter. Would like to use it with all of the potential.

Edit wants to remind of the post from last year regarding sounds.
http://forum.locusmap.eu/index.php?topic=3318.msg36347.msg#36347
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: menion on May 28, 2016, 06:13:17
Nono I was talking, that I currently have no idea how to create a layout in Locus that allows to simply define three different sounds for these options.

Currently there is just "Set notification on direction change". But you need to allow
a) basic notification ( to still allow users define a simple single notification like now )
b) advanced notification
  1) notification on turn left
  2) notification on turn right
  3) notification on go straight

And this is quite a big complexity step. Anyway is this idea on help desk. Seems not to exists ( even under tagged "guidance" is not found http://help.locusmap.eu/search/tag%3Aguidance ). So I can't imagine if anyone except you and 0709 is interested in it.

Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on May 29, 2016, 21:09:56
Mmmh.... not tagged as "guidance" but still "in progress" due to still missing sounds and signals - the good old thread:
http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds (http://help.locusmap.eu/topic/automatic-display-activation-guiding-with-display-and-sounds)

31 votes, nearly finished.
Title: Re: Automatic Display activation
Post by: Christian on June 11, 2016, 20:37:46
Hello Christian,

main key parameter for guidance that influence "when" Locus switch to next trackpoint is "Set next trackpoint" (in Guidance settings).
My expectations were wrong because i always looked for a setting like "set distance for notification".
Now i understand how the next notification is computed by Locus.
The distance is not calculated for the related upcoming waypoint but for the trackpoint located after the waypoint.
And... the calculated distance is beeline.

That means if the trackpoint behind the waypoint is behind a turn with >=90º (in most cases) the real distance becomes smaller. Thats why i get notifications in different distances and time intervals. Sometimes its quite short for leading the peloton around the corners when the computed distance is not equal to the distance to go by bike. So the notifications are not really reliable.

Is there any chance to improve this small system a little bit?